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Forum » Knowledge » Politics/Economics » Anarchism & Occupy Wall Street
Anarchism & Occupy Wall Street
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 14/Dec/11, 5:58 AM | Message # 1

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great article on Occupy Wall Street and its anarchist roots:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/11/2011112872835904508

i love how this movement is sort of implicitly anarchist, and no one really talks about it, but all anarchists know and tacitly acknowledge that it is their principles in effect and all of their fellow anarchists recognize that as well. it's sort of a subliminal victory, or at least step in the right direction, for our principles.

btw, i saw this article re-posted on The Guardian, which tells me that anarchists and other radical movements are beginning to gain a voice in a more major way, which is pretty exciting to me as well.


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Treach Date: Wednesday, 14/Dec/11, 2:33 PM | Message # 2

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i doubt too many of them actually consider themselves anarchists tho

Added (14/Dec/11, 2:33 PM)
---------------------------------------------
E will u school me on anarchism? like with them long ass posts yall used to write haha...


"We took pride in intellect and skill
Now you gotta have some sex appeal to get a record deal"
- K-RINO
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 14/Dec/11, 4:42 PM | Message # 3

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Obviously they aren't aware of it. That's what, to me, is so beautiful about it. People try to trash anarchism as a movement but then they become active in a movement, or in support of a movement, that is so blatantly anarchic in nature and support it's tenets without realizing that they are proving the viability of anarchism.

And yeah, I'll explain it to you. Just to quickly help you understand, anarchism is an ideology based on a broad range of theories that aim to eliminate coercion in as many social relations as possible. The majority of anarchists being both socialist and anti-capitalist, most tend to focus specifically on economics and politics and aim to eliminate coercive hierarchies in the workplace and promote directly democratic rule instead of governance of the few over the many. Within that crowd, the majority (in which I do not personally fit) are anarcho-communists, which means they seek a society which is stateless and classless by means of remunerating individuals according to the policy, "from each according to ability, to each according to need".

Does that make sense, or should I break it down a little bit more?


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erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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Treach Date: Wednesday, 14/Dec/11, 6:02 PM | Message # 4

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no yeah that makes sense and most of that i kind of knew already.
i really like the idea of anarchism but my problem is i cant see it working on a large scale, only in a smaller community of like-minded individuals.
im also confused about the definitions of different variations of anarchism like individualist etc.


"We took pride in intellect and skill
Now you gotta have some sex appeal to get a record deal"
- K-RINO
eboyd Date: Thursday, 15/Dec/11, 3:24 AM | Message # 5

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Well, you'll probably find that most anarchists are also fans of libertarian municipalism which is basically the idea that power is federated between municipalities to create solidarity in law and commerce between independent municipalities rather than a top down system in which there is a nation state with control over the municipalities that make it up. Therefore, each municipality operates under anarchist principles and any relations between multiple municipalities goes to an agreement between the municipalities as they would network together from the bottom up rather than top down where the government acts as the ultimate decider of the policy. That way, basically, you have it operating on small scales, and all of these small anarchist communities are in close contact and therefore make up a large anarchist society but as many small, interrelated anarchist communities.

As for the different types of anarchism, there are basically three main types and most of the rest fit into sub-categories within each or are mixtures of them: anarcho-communism is the belief in anarchism coupled with collectivized labor (workers' self-management) and remuneration according to need; collectivist anarchism is the belief in workers' control over the means of production (again, workers' self-management) coupled with remuneration according to the labor they perform. Individualist anarchism focuses mainly or to some major extent on individuals owning their own businesses (though without employees) and taking control of their own affairs. A good example of individualist anarchism is mutualism. This style of anarchism stresses having both collectives and businesses owned as sole proprietorships.


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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Treach Date: Thursday, 15/Dec/11, 11:48 AM | Message # 6

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so what do you think would be best?

"We took pride in intellect and skill
Now you gotta have some sex appeal to get a record deal"
- K-RINO
J-Breakz Date: Thursday, 15/Dec/11, 1:00 PM | Message # 7

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occupy wall street... ima occupy job interviews

livin life like some cheesy movie
Treach Date: Thursday, 15/Dec/11, 1:28 PM | Message # 8

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^^ that reminds me, most say the protesters are just people who cant get a job or are too lazy to work, but a study showed that 70% of the protesters are actually employed

"We took pride in intellect and skill
Now you gotta have some sex appeal to get a record deal"
- K-RINO
eboyd Date: Thursday, 15/Dec/11, 2:29 PM | Message # 9

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Quote (Treach)
so what do you think would be best?


I am personally an individualist anarchist. I most closely associate myself with mutualism but I have theories of my own that contradict some of the main tenets of mutualism. For example, while I agree with the idea of sole proprietorships working in harmony with collectives, I do not agree with Proudhon and other mutualists that the Labor Theory of Value is the most optimal value system. I have a specific value system that I am developing where the price of scarce goods would be based on their scarcity and money would be directly backed by the productivity of labor. I feel that such a system would not only fix the problem of the inadequacy of objective value systems, but it would also allow communist style economics to come naturally if they are viable. I also have some sympathies towards capitalist theory, believe it or not. I used to oppose contract law in general but I've recently been working on theories to reform it to make it more fair for both parties to a contract and put each party on equal standing. That way, speaking specifically of employment contracts, one could very well agree to be employed as long as they came to decide that in spite of the fact that they knew they could just as easily choose to be more equal in their labor relationship.


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

J-Breakz Date: Thursday, 15/Dec/11, 2:38 PM | Message # 10

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another study showed that 70% of all studies are made up. that isnt my point. my point is that the only way you get things is by working for them. its so fucking ez to sell stuff omg i got hired as a sales rep for xtreme socal and was making about 100 dollars a day in commision. i cant keep up with it cuz i think the whole product is a rip off and im not gonna sell a product i dont believe in.. most likely the company is gonna tank too, cuz i was the only person that had all his sales go thru without cancellations (helping ppl not get taken advantage of is the easiest way of making money, i make all my customers aware of hidden fees and deadlines thats why no1 cancelled after they checked out the website to confirm purchases).

yet we got ppl complaining about how theyr poor and hungry and blah blah blah cuz they begin to depend on our welfare system to feed themselves. any1 who has been in a social services office should realize how much bullshit it is and always will be. just focus on your own, realize u gotta bust your ass no matter who the fuck you are and stop envying other ppls' riches. thats all socialism and occupy is. a bunch of jealous bitches that wanna play victim in order to get what they want.

occupy is a response the the tea party movement protestors btw


livin life like some cheesy movie
J-Breakz Date: Thursday, 15/Dec/11, 2:45 PM | Message # 11

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#nas.all.day.err.day

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eboyd Date: Friday, 16/Dec/11, 1:16 AM | Message # 12

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Quote (J-Breakz)
another study showed that 70% of all studies are made up.


That's an excuse people who are wrong use to pretend they're right. My dad often uses that when I present evidence that proves him wrong too. Sure, some studies are false, but this one happens to be at least relatively true.

Quote (J-Breakz)
my point is that the only way you get things is by working for them.


You don't think Occupy protesters are hard workers?? Why do you assume that??

Quote (J-Breakz)
its so fucking ez to sell stuff omg i got hired as a sales rep for xtreme socal and was making about 100 dollars a day in commision. i cant keep up with it cuz i think the whole product is a rip off and im not gonna sell a product i dont believe in.. most likely the company is gonna tank too, cuz i was the only person that had all his sales go thru without cancellations (helping ppl not get taken advantage of is the easiest way of making money, i make all my customers aware of hidden fees and deadlines thats why no1 cancelled after they checked out the website to confirm purchases).


Notice, you claim that sales is "so easy", but then you go on to mention that the company you work for will probably tank because YOU MADE ALL THE SALES. It may be the fact that others don't ensure the reliability of the product like you do because they don't put in the work to let them know about it, or it may just be that others aren't as smooth sales people as you are naturally because they just don't know how to talk as well. That is not something you earn with hard work, it is a natural talent. What about those of us who aren't as gifted? Is it just their tough luck and they're doomed to be the have nots for the rest of their lives?

Quote (J-Breakz)
yet we got ppl complaining about how theyr poor and hungry and blah blah blah cuz they begin to depend on our welfare system to feed themselves. any1 who has been in a social services office should realize how much bullshit it is and always will be. just focus on your own, realize u gotta bust your ass no matter who the fuck you are and stop envying other ppls' riches. thats all socialism and occupy is. a bunch of jealous bitches that wanna play victim in order to get what they want.


I'll admit, a good amount of wealthy business owners and high ranking business officials, if not most of them, work their asses off to get where they do in life. A good amount of them don't work very hard and either step on peoples' backs or inherit their riches. Regardless of how they attain their position of power, nothing justifies multi-million dollar salaries with constant bonuses and absolute full control over said business while those they employ have no control and, no matter how hard they work, they make pennies which, most of the time, doesn't even come close to paying for their cost of living.

Various forms of socialism are calls for workers to at least have some control over that. Some call for more control than others. I think just a little bit of democracy in the workplace is a good start, like maybe allowing workers as a whole to have at least some say where the money a business makes goes. Is that too much to ask for?


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

J-Breakz Date: Friday, 16/Dec/11, 7:52 PM | Message # 13

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i said making money is easy. its not that i have natural talents i just set goals for myself to figure out how i can make a certain amount of money.

livin life like some cheesy movie
eboyd Date: Friday, 16/Dec/11, 10:08 PM | Message # 14

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Ok, but how is that different? What may be easy to you could be monumentally harder for someone else. How do you get off saying it is easy when you don't experience the job market as every other person?

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

J-Breakz Date: Saturday, 17/Dec/11, 4:01 PM | Message # 15

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what are you talking about? i just set a goal of making 800 dollars and figure out ways that i can make that. some ppl are basketball stars.. i suck at basketball completely. that just means i wouldn't bother trying to make 800 dollars through basketball. theres a million ways to make money, eventually your just gonna have to choose one way to make money or else ur excuse is ALWAYS going to be that you're not good enough.

they just fucked me and a coworker over today and took money from our paychecks. this means im going to have to find other jobs for myself.

in nature your ass has to eat. theres no "well some people are better at finding food while others aren't". nah its "u either find food or u starve". thats just how nature works and we're always a slave to it. go through LA! its a fuckin jungle. at some point your gonna have to accept self responsibility for the position that you're in and make moves to keep progressing and living.


livin life like some cheesy movie
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