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Forum » Knowledge » Religious/Philosophical Debate » Ask Why
Ask Why
EmSeeD Date: Saturday, 27/Nov/10, 4:16 AM | Message # 1

Heads
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ask a question about the bible that you think doesn't make sense, also if you have any possible answers or theories give them for other peoples questions so we can all learn

my question is why did god send satan to earth instead of locking him up in hell

according to the bible, satan rebelled against god in heaven, this means sin is still a possibility in heaven according to Judaism, islam and christianity, the belief then says that god didn't actually send satan into hell to be locked up, but instead god sent satan to earth??? why???? why did god send satan to earth knowing satan could corrupt this earth, why did god make it possible for satan to temp adam and eve? because he loves them? if he loved them he wouldn't have sent someone like satan to live in the same place as them, its like leaving a loaded gun in front of your child and then claiming its the childs fault when he uses the gun, a loving parent wouldn't do such a thing to their child. Did he do it to test them?? if so then once they failed the test why didn't god do anything to stop the consequences, why would god allow such a careless and dangerous test?? infact why would there even be a need for any testing in the first place, adam and eve are supposed to be in a perfect place without sin, why would you need to test something like this? also if the possibility to sin existed in heaven but it didn't exist on earth, then was earth actually better than heaven???


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ritesofpasage Date: Sunday, 28/Nov/10, 3:18 PM | Message # 2

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http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/tbr/tbr051.htm

Added (28/Nov/10, 3:07 PM)
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Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways, but iniquity was found in him. It was not put there by God. Lucifer created it.
( this is found in Ezekiel 28:15 )

Ezekiel 28:12 (KJV)

"Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

This is not an earthly king, as the word "cherub" is only used in references to angels.

15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

The word "covering" is from the Hebrew word cakak, and means: to entwine, to fence in, cover over, protect, defend, hedge in, (source "The complete word study Old Testament")

Was Lucifer’s job to protect the very earth he corrupted? Was this one of his duties that gave him so much pride?

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

0 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Added (28/Nov/10, 3:18 PM)
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The problem of Lucifer's fall and man's fall is because of choice.

Man was made in his image.

God has choices but is held to his word.

Man is not held to his word until he dies and is judged by the word.

God discovered perfect beings like Lucifer can go wrong and develop a wrong choice.

So he gave us choice to learn to be responsible with it.

He saw most of us learning from experiences of failure than learning from wisdom.

So he saved us.


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EmSeeD Date: Sunday, 28/Nov/10, 5:22 PM | Message # 3

Heads
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hmm...the description of the cherubs, covering, walking up a mountain and stones of fire makes me think its actually talking about the 10 commandments and the ark of the covenant, the ark of the covenant was covered by a lid that had sculptures of cherubs on it, moses walked up a mountain to get them, god wrote them into stones with fire. i'm not sure though i'll have to look into that coz it does talk about this person being in the garden of eden
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Quote (RitesofPassage)
Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty."

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

yep this definitely describes the ark of the covenant, the ark of the covenant was made of many precious stones and gold and it sealed the ten commandments of god so i'm not sure if this is actually about satan at all


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EmSeeD Date: Sunday, 28/Nov/10, 5:38 PM | Message # 4

Heads
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Quote (ritesofpasage)
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

the ark was made up and covered in these jewels, the fact it says "the workmanship of they tabrets" shows this is not talking about a being or person its talking about an object that was made

Quote
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire."

the ark was covered by a lid that had sculptures of cherub (angel creatures, sometimes they portrayed lion like creatures with wings similar to the Egyptian sphinx), the stones of fire = the 10 commandments of god which were written into stone with fire, the holy mountain = mount sinai where god wrote them

Quote
15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

0 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

perhaps this is talking about the israelites defiling the temple of god where the ark of the covenant was kept, this was written at a time when israel were in capture and were wondering why god let this happen, the prophets answer was because they had turned against god's ways, the law of god and temple was perfect until they defiled its presence, many israelites had worshipped other gods and if i remember right one king even brought other idols into the temple where the ark was kept, when it says "i will destroy thee o covering cherub from the midst of the stones of fire"

its talking about the midst of the 10 commandments, the temple that contained them, god will destroy the temple and perhaps even the ark itself which may be why we can't find them today, because they had been destroyed. once again remember this was written to the israelites at a time when they were captured by the (babylonians?) and their land had been destroyed by them, ezekiels explanation is that god made it happen to punish them for defiling his temple of the ark so i don't believe this passage is about satan at all


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ritesofpasage Date: Monday, 29/Nov/10, 8:37 PM | Message # 5

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Ezekiel 28:12 speaks about the King of Tyre who was........

http://www.gotquestions.org/King-of-Tyre.html

Added (29/Nov/10, 8:37 PM)
---------------------------------------------
Ezekiel 28:15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."

Has nothing to do with the ark of the covenant. The ark doesn't have "ways."

peace


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EmSeeD Date: Wednesday, 01/Dec/10, 0:25 AM | Message # 6

Heads
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their only reasons for thinking it was about satan is the refference to being in the garden of eden, a holy mountain of god and covering of cherubs,

imo the holy mountain of god, covering cherubs, stones of fire, jewels and gold are all too close to the ark of the covenant, idk about the being in the garden of eden though, some say the ark is a symbol for the tree of life but i'm not sure to be honest. perfect in thy ways could just gods relationship with israel which is what the ark represented but i'm not entirely sure i haven't looked into it. honestly though the description is too close


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ritesofpasage Date: Monday, 13/Dec/10, 11:15 AM | Message # 7

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I got a question to ask..................

Who did Jesus pray to if Jesus is God?


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EmSeeD Date: Friday, 17/Dec/10, 1:16 AM | Message # 8

Heads
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Quote (ritesofpasage)
Who did Jesus pray to if Jesus is God?

the christian would be in the trinity, that jesus was praying to god the father, some christians even say the trinity existed in the old testament, in Genesis i can't remember the verse but God actually talks to himself before the creates the world and says "we" rather than "i", i remember in school i was taught this was because of the trinity, however i think this is very unlikely because the old testament was written by ancient jews who had no concept of the trinity whatsoever so how could they have written it in that way. i haven't looked for the answer for why god talked to himself before he created the world but yeah

others would say its because jesus was just a prophet and not literally god


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ritesofpasage Date: Friday, 17/Dec/10, 3:07 PM | Message # 9

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Check out my melody faithfulness is the fidelity of my soundtrack to that of the heavenlies.....
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 22/Dec/10, 12:41 PM | Message # 10

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Quote (EmSeeD)
others would say its because jesus was just a prophet and not literally god

but these people were the Arians (not to be confused with Aryans) and it was deemed that Arianism, among other strands of thought within Christianity, were false during the council of Nicaea in 325 AD.


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