[ Copy this | Start New | Full Size ]

Login:
Password:
New messages · Members · Forum rules · Search · RSS · Profile · Logout
Forum moderator: TheWatcher, Menace, I_Guy, Aristotle  
Forum » Knowledge » Religious/Philosophical Debate » God & The 4 Omnis
God & The 4 Omnis
eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 5:51 PM | Message # 61

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
Yes, but he would have to know what you will actually do next as well. If he is all knowing he must know everything that is possibly knowable and conceivable. It could, then, be argued that since future events are not actually truthfully knowable or conceivable then God's omniscience doesn't negate free will.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Menace Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 6:00 PM | Message # 62

Heads
Posts: 6764
Reputation: 0
Offline
this whole subject is relative and depends on the religious school of thought if you actually study the bible there is no free will if you study gnosticism is free will in fact there is too much of it so it depends on that particular school of thought and ultimately on the individuals own conception of God so there is no answer here

EmSeeD Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 6:03 PM | Message # 63

Heads
Posts: 11464
Reputation: 8
Offline
Quote (eboyd)
Yes, but he would have to know what you will actually do next as well. If he is all knowing he must know everything that is possibly knowable and conceivable. It could, then, be argued that since future events are not actually truthfully knowable or conceivable then God's omniscience doesn't negate free will.

like i said i don't believe there is such a thing as "the future". he know's what we are gonna do next only coz he knows what we're thinking


http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
Menace Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 6:05 PM | Message # 64

Heads
Posts: 6764
Reputation: 0
Offline
Quote (EmSeeD)
like i said i don't believe there is such a thing as "the future". he know's what we are gonna do next only coz he knows what we're thinking

what we will do next is the actual future he knows what step we will make he knows THE FUTURE and as i said above this subject goes nowhere cause it depends on thousands of factors


eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 8:34 PM | Message # 65

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
Yeah. That's what faith is.

EmSeeD.... What Menace said. Lol!


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 8:41 PM | Message # 66

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
lol

NO!!!!!!!!


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 8:46 PM | Message # 67

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
No sex in the champagne room.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 8:57 PM | Message # 68

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 11:08 PM | Message # 69

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
Ok, but you read why I came with this thread right? Was it in malice? Obviously I'm just trying to understand the opposite perspective. You say it came as a surprise. You mean judging by the title and first post or do you mean all of my comments? I understand if the former, but if the latter, that kind of makes me wonder if you are a bit too sensitive (no offense). Nothing I said was meant in malice, only to help me better understand where people stand.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

EmSeeD Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 0:33 AM | Message # 70

Heads
Posts: 11464
Reputation: 8
Offline
Quote (Menace)
what we will do next is the actual future he knows what step we will make he knows THE FUTURE and as i said above this subject goes nowhere cause it depends on thousands of factors

what i mean is he know's what's in our hearts, like he knows what decision we are likely to make just before we make the decision.


http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
SoulRas Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 1:32 AM | Message # 71

Emcees
Posts: 444
Reputation: 0
Offline
Anybody familiar with Aldous Huxley?

“Music is the harmonious voice of creation; an echo of the invisible world.”
-Giuseppe Mazzini
EmSeeD Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 1:37 AM | Message # 72

Heads
Posts: 11464
Reputation: 8
Offline
nope

http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
SoulRas Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 1:38 AM | Message # 73

Emcees
Posts: 444
Reputation: 0
Offline
He is author of the book : The Doors of Perception & Heaven and Hell

h/o and I'll post some links and thoughts


“Music is the harmonious voice of creation; an echo of the invisible world.”
-Giuseppe Mazzini
SoulRas Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 1:55 AM | Message # 74

Emcees
Posts: 444
Reputation: 0
Offline
Okay, the Doors of Perception is a book written in 1954 by Aldous Huxley in his experiences when taking mescaline.. and Basically, Huxley was a humanist and pacifist, but was also interested in spiritual subjects like parapsychology and philosophical mysticism.

Mysticism is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight. Mysticism usually centers on a practice or practices intended to nurture that experience or awareness.

Here are some quotes from the book :

"To be shaken out of the ruts of ordinary perception, to be shown for a few timeless hours the outer and inner world, not as they appear to an animal obsessed with survival or to a human being obsessed with words and notions, but as they are apprehended, directly and unconditionally, by Mind at Large— this is an experience of inestimable value to everyone and especially to the intellectual."

Mind at Large - Psychedelic drugs are thought to disable filters which block or suppress signals related to mundane functions from reaching the conscious mind. The idea that the human mind filters reality, partly because handling the details of all of the impressions and images coming in would be unbearable, partly because it has been taught to do so.

belief that psychotropic drugs can partly remove this filter, which leaves the drug user exposed to Mind at Large. everyday objects lose their functionality and suddenly exist "as such." Space and dimension become irrelevant, and perceptions seem to be enlarged and at times even overwhelming.

Quoted from the Doors of Perception :

"Each person is at each moment capable of remembering all that has ever happened to him and of perceiving everything that is happening everywhere in the universe. The function of the brain and nervous system is to protect us from being overwhelmed and confused by this mass of largely useless and irrelevant knowledge, by shutting out most of what we should otherwise perceive or remember at any moment, and leaving only that very small and special selection which is likely to be practically useful. According to such a theory, each one of us is potentially Mind at Large."

""Mind" is a tool invented by the universe to see itself; but it can never see all of itself, for much the same reason that you can’t see your own back (without mirrors), the tongue ultimately cannot taste the tongue.

"If the "mind" can be expanded to what Huxley called "Mind at Large", then perhaps the "mind" in this state is seeing the entire universe.
In the final stage of egolessness there is an "obscure knowledge" that All is in all—that All is actually each. This is as near, I take it, as a finite mind can ever come to "perceiving everything that is happening everywhere in the universe"

Also quoted from Doors :

"* "Is it agreeable?" somebody asked.

"Neither agreeable nor disagreeable," I answered. "it just is." Istigkeit - wasn't that the word Meister Eckhart liked to use? "Is-ness." The Being of Platonic philosophy - except that Plato seems to have made the enormous, the grotesque mistake of separating Being from becoming and identifying it with the mathematical abstraction of the Idea. He could never, poor fellow, have seen a bunch of flowers shining with their own inner light and all but quivering under the pressure of the significance with which they were charged; could never have perceived that what rose and iris and carnation so intensely signified was nothing more, and nothing less, than what they were - a transience that was yet eternal life, a perpetual perishing that was at the same time pure Being, a bundle of minute, unique particulars in which, by some unspeakable and yet self-evident paradox, was to be seen the divine source of all existence"

"I strongly suspect that most of the great knowers of Suchness paid very little attention to art.... (To a person whose transfigured and transfiguring mind can see the All in every this, the first-rateness or tenth-rateness of even a religious painting will be a matter of the most sovereign indifference.) Art, I suppose, is only for beginners, or else for those resolute dead-enders, who have made up their minds to be content with the ersatz of Suchness, with symbols rather than with what they signify, with the elegantly composed recipe in lieu of actual dinner."

And this last piece of quotation, I feel relates directly to me; my thought's, my thought process, and in all, me.

"The man who comes back through the Door in the Wall will never be quite the same as the man who went out. He will be wiser but less sure, happier but less self-satisfied, humbler in acknowledging his ignorance yet better equipped to understand the relationship of words to things, of systematic reasoning to the unfathomable mystery which it tries, forever vainly, to comprehend."


“Music is the harmonious voice of creation; an echo of the invisible world.”
-Giuseppe Mazzini
EmSeeD Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 2:41 AM | Message # 75

Heads
Posts: 11464
Reputation: 8
Offline
are you sure that wasn't meant for that other thread you made called "what is reality"

http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
Forum » Knowledge » Religious/Philosophical Debate » God & The 4 Omnis
Search: