[ Copy this | Start New | Full Size ]

Login:
Password:
Lost password| Sign Up
New messages · Members · Forum rules · Search · RSS · Profile · Logout
Forum moderator: I_Guy, s0dr2, El_Matador  
Forum » Knowledge » Philosophy/Science » Good vs Evil/Moral Absolutes
Good vs Evil/Moral Absolutes
I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 0:11 AM | Message # 31

Heads
Posts: 1792
Reputation: 1
Offline
Quote (EYAR15)
morals.... psshhh who needs em

The world needs some type of order to maintain existance, rather it be morals (preferably not) or whatever else.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 0:11 AM | Message # 32

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
 LOL! Yeah, thanks for that. It was something I've been meaning to discuss.
my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

eboyd Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 3:31 AM | Message # 33

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
 BUMPACLOT!
my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Menace Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 8:31 AM | Message # 34

Heads
Posts: 6764
Reputation: 0
Offline
Quote (I_Guy)
The world needs some type of order to maintain existance, rather it be morals (preferably not) or whatever else.

the only order is the natural order that's why human beings are a plague unto this earth because we created synthetic ideas synthetic environments our ecological problems are rooted in deep-seated social problems, particularly in dominatory hierarchical political and social systems. These have resulted in an uncritical acceptance of an overly competitive grow-or-die philosophy that killed everything.

Quote (I_Guy)
Not really, their actions are simply internal chemical reactions to stimuli in the enviroment. Their is no thinking or choice involved, because they have no intellectual reasoning. The ability to reason (rather well or poorly) determines "right" and "wrong" or "what makes sense." People often confuse the mechanisms of evolution as a somehow thinking phenomenon. The ants do not think. The incredible complexity of evolution has brought about societies like ants to be able to cooperate intuitively. This is also where creationists get confused, because the development seems so unfathomable that it appears evident that God's action had to have designed it.

Kropotkin was a scientist first then a political activist as he said later in the video "If an ant which has it's community crop full and it's selfish enough to refuse feeding a comrade , the ant will be treated as an enemy and even worse banished from the community or killed " this is first hand scientific research that Kropotkin discovered he noticed that some animals do in fact have a certain amount of free will because some of them refuse to participate in the communal life of their race or colony.

eboyd Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 12:21 PM | Message # 35

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
 That's crazy! Damn! Btw, I am no proponent of hierarchy, but how do you explain ants and bees and many other animals having "queens"? There almost always seems to be a leader in the animal kingdom. How do you explain that if it isn't natural?
my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Menace Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 2:39 PM | Message # 36

Heads
Posts: 6764
Reputation: 0
Offline
 In the animal kingdom "leaders" have no "executive " power over their minions they either are an administrative force or they are there for procreation. If you noticed the queens of the ants , bees and such are there for procreation and nothing else that's their only function, that said their position is justified by nature itself while our human structures are not as i said up there natural order is the only ORDER as we saw in our entire human history we were and always are enslaved by our own forms of "organization " there are thousands of examples in our history .
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 3:27 PM | Message # 37

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
 cool. that clears that up for me. thanks.
my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Menace Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 3:51 PM | Message # 38

Heads
Posts: 6764
Reputation: 0
Offline
 the last part in the comment the enslaved part is a quote from the book The History Of Anarchism biggrin QUOTE !! HAHAHAHA biggrin
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 4:56 PM | Message # 39

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
 LOL!
my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 6:44 PM | Message # 40

Heads
Posts: 1792
Reputation: 1
Offline
Quote (Menace)
the only order is the natural order that's why human beings are a plague unto this earth because we created synthetic ideas synthetic environments our ecological problems are rooted in deep-seated social problems, particularly in dominatory hierarchical political and social systems. These have resulted in an uncritical acceptance of an overly competitive grow-or-die philosophy that killed everything.

VERY TRUE.

Quote (Menace)
he noticed that some animals do in fact have a certain amount of free will because some of them refuse to participate in the communal life of their race or colony.

This could be a glitch in their biosystem. Setting them apart from the rest. Nature makes mistakes, the rebellious ants could just be the retards of the population.

Quote (eboyd)
but how do you explain ants and bees and many other animals having "queens"? There almost always seems to be a leader in the animal kingdom. How do you explain that if it isn't natural?

Quote (Menace)
In the animal kingdom "leaders" have no "executive " power over their minions they either are an administrative force or they are there for procreation. If you noticed the queens of the ants , bees and such are there for procreation and nothing else that's their only function, that said their position is justified by nature itself while our human structures are not as i said up there natural order is the only ORDER as we saw in our entire human history we were and always are enslaved by our own forms of "organization " there are thousands of examples in our history .

I agree. And you can see other more complex animals, such as mammals, share a similar hierarchy system that humans have. From lion prides, and many other mammalian societies, all the way up to apes who share the most similar hierarchy, especially gorillas. But their individual positions in their society are determined by simple brute strength, not the social complexities that Menace was describing for humans.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 6:48 PM | Message # 41

Heads
Posts: 1792
Reputation: 1
Offline
Quote (8Diagrams)
Does that mean you are against the idea of anarchy?

Definitely not. I believe that "what makes sense" should govern world order. That definitely can exist within anarchy.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 6:56 PM | Message # 42

Heads
Posts: 1792
Reputation: 1
Offline
Quote (8Diagrams)
But do we really KNOW what makes sense?

Yes through logic, and trying to be objective as our human minds will allow.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
Menace Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 7:07 PM | Message # 43

Heads
Posts: 6764
Reputation: 0
Offline
Quote (8Diagrams)

But do we really KNOW what makes sense?

the natural order is the ultimate moral code the natural order is the ultimate 10 commandments

Quote (8Diagrams)
Does that mean you are against the idea of anarchy?

no he's not and take notice that the subjection of man to nature (having to work to gain one's sustenance) whit the subjection of man to man ( exploitation ) they are 2 total different things.

Quote (I_Guy)
This could be a glitch in their biosystem. Setting them apart from the rest. Nature makes mistakes, the rebellious ants could just be the retards of the population.

well that could be but notice that some ants help and feed other rival species of ants and when one ant does that to this rival ant that one ant will be treated as a friend by both his species and the rival species this could imply some free will too

Quote (I_Guy)
And you can see other more complex animals, such as mammals, share a similar hierarchy system that humans have. From lion prides, and many other mammalian societies, all the way up to apes who share the most similar hierarchy, especially gorillas. But their individual positions in their society are determined by simple brute strength, not the social complexities that Menace was describing for humans.

yes indeed in their society even as primitive as they are there is no abuse of power and there is an ethical behavior of course at their level we humans created imaginative power structures we created useless hierarchies

I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 7:08 PM | Message # 44

Heads
Posts: 1792
Reputation: 1
Offline
Quote (8Diagrams)
But isn't it all subjective as to what works and what will destroy us all?

No because objective logic cannont be defeated.

Quote (Menace)
but notice that some ants help and feed other rival species of ants and when one ant does that to this rival ant that one ant will be treated as a friend by both his species and the rival species this could imply some free will too

Hmmm....this could be.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 10/Jun/09, 9:27 PM | Message # 45

Heads
Posts: 13145
Reputation: 2
Offline
Quote (I_Guy)
Hmmm....this could be.

yes, i agree. Menace, thank you for making that point. this was a very good point.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Forum » Knowledge » Philosophy/Science » Good vs Evil/Moral Absolutes
Search: