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Forum » Knowledge » Philosophy/Science » Debate: What Is The Basis Of Your Moral/Ethical Code?
Debate: What Is The Basis Of Your Moral/Ethical Code?
eboyd Date: Monday, 09/Nov/09, 9:30 AM | Message # 1

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This is going to be a pretty interesting thread and if you like debate this should be fun. I expect people in here to try to poke holes in the next person's moral code in order to strengthen their basis of morality. I want everyone here to, in detail, describe what they base their ethics on. This way we will be able to decide which moral code is, to the best of our knowledge, the strongest.

So, let's begin. Do you follow a religious/spiritual moral/ethical code? Do you follow a philosophical teaching that helps you decide what is moral/ethical? Do you follow Dan Barker's ideal of "minimizing harm"? Relativity? Do you have your own unique way of defining your ethics?

I personally am a component of moral/ethical relativity. This form of ethics tends to catch a lot of heat from religious folks which is pretty much solely because it was used in most every communist country, though their version of it was quite skewed. The idea is simply and is even found in most religious codes. "Do unto others as you wish to be done upon yourself". The simplest basis of this ethical code, which I've found that even most people who follow this neglect to realize and bring up in debating those opposed to it, is this:

I do not wish something I do not favor to be done to me, so I should not do something to someone else that they do not favor.

This is, of course a guideline, so there are obvious exceptions like when that person is doing something unfavorable (or worse) to you and you need to do something unfavorable in return to get them to stop doing what they are doing.

Please, for my sake, point out where this ideology fails, and post what you follow and we will try to do the same for you.


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Menace Date: Monday, 09/Nov/09, 10:48 AM | Message # 2

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i am a moral relativist myself and there is no universal nor basic moral code because if there is or someone tries to create one that would lead to moral absolutism which is very very bad and by the way communist countries didn't use moral relativism in their societies in fact they used moral absolutism everything served the party and the state the party and the state are supreme moral and ethical authorities

eboyd Date: Monday, 09/Nov/09, 10:58 AM | Message # 3

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I'm aware of that, but try telling that to a Christian conservative lol!

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s0dr2 Date: Monday, 09/Nov/09, 2:45 PM | Message # 4

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Quote (eboyd)
I do not wish something I do not favor to be done to me, so I should not do something to someone else that they do not favor.

i dont see how thats any different from "do unto others ..."

Quote
This is, of course a guideline, so there are obvious exceptions like when that person is doing something unfavorable (or worse) to you and you need to do something unfavorable in return to get them to stop doing what they are doing.

give an example... if my wife is on my jock (not literally), can i smack her to set her straight?...and if she literally is on my jock, can i smack her behind for being a naughty girl?


"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain



Message edited by sodr2 - Monday, 09/Nov/09, 3:04 PM
Menace Date: Monday, 09/Nov/09, 3:05 PM | Message # 5

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Quote (sodr2)

i dont see how thats any different from "do unto others ..."

it's the same and by the way Sodr2 that idea and saying is not " made by Christianity " as you think "The Golden rule" or "the Ethic of reciprocity" as its called in academic terms dates back to early days of Ancient Egypt the idea is older then any monotheistic religions


eboyd Date: Monday, 09/Nov/09, 3:09 PM | Message # 6

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It is not, and that is the whole point. It is the basis of that. It is like the ground rule of relativity. Without it people can do things to others because they would like it even though that other person doesn't and that is an argument frequented by theists. They often say that if it is all relative, I can argue that I am suicidal and would like to be killed, so by the laws of relativity, it says I should kill someone else. But when you take account of this ground rule, killing someone because you want to be killed becomes immoral because you do not wish something be done to you that you dislike, so you shouldn't do something to them that they dislike. That is why such a rule is necessary.

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eboyd Date: Monday, 09/Nov/09, 3:14 PM | Message # 7

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Quote (sodr)
give an example... if my wife is on my jock (not literally), can i smack her to set her straight?...and if she literally is on my jock, can i smack her behind for being a naughty girl?

rofl

Sodr, what you and this hypothetical wife of yours do in bed is none of my business :D

What I am referring to is when someone, for example, is beating you up and won't stop and you need to fight back in order to get him off. You fighting back will be unfavorable to him, but necessary for you to get away from that unfavorable situation.


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I_Guy Date: Monday, 09/Nov/09, 8:16 PM | Message # 8

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I go by what relatively "makes sense."

We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
s0dr2 Date: Wednesday, 11/Nov/09, 3:14 PM | Message # 9

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what is 'Utilitarian philosophy'?

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Menace Date: Wednesday, 11/Nov/09, 4:18 PM | Message # 10

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Quote (sodr2)
Utilitarian philosophy

Utilitarianism is the idea that the moral worth of an action is determined solely by its contribution to overall utility: that is, its contribution to happiness or pleasure as summed among all people. It is thus a form of consequentialism, meaning that the moral worth of an action is determined by its outcome.


eboyd Date: Wednesday, 11/Nov/09, 5:44 PM | Message # 11

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Quote (sodr2)
what is 'Utilitarian philosophy'?

where did you learn about that? i've never heard of that before. i mean i've heard the concept, but not the actual term. i need to study up on this.


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eboyd Date: Thursday, 12/Nov/09, 2:27 AM | Message # 12

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I am not speaking of "fighting back" as a morally/ethically positive act, but rather as neutral. The whole idea is that it simply is a resistance to a negative action performed upon that person. If the situation instead was such that one was defending another individual and for one reason or another found that the only solution was to kill the assailant, as has been the situation in a number of crimes involving hostages, that, in fact, would be a positive ethical action.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

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EmSeeD Date: Saturday, 14/Nov/09, 1:19 AM | Message # 13

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Quote (Menace)
by the way Sodr2 that idea and saying is not " made by Christianity " as you think "The Golden rule" or "the Ethic of reciprocity" as its called in academic terms dates back to early days of Ancient Egypt the idea is older then any monotheistic religions

the golden rule was actually Jesus quoting a verse from Deuteronomy, in the old testament so he didn't even make it up


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Menace Date: Sunday, 15/Nov/09, 10:56 AM | Message # 14

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Quote (EmSeeD)
the golden rule was actually Jesus quoting a verse from Deuteronomy, in the old testament so he didn't even make it up

my point was that the golden rule is much older then any monotheist religion in fact the golden rule has a very secular background


EmSeeD Date: Monday, 22/Nov/10, 4:15 AM | Message # 15

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thread ressurected, i've recently been in an argument with a christian on this stuff so yeah

Quote (I_Guy)
I go by what relatively "makes sense."

an argument conservative christians will make is "but hitler was going by what "made sense" to him relatively with the holocaust"

my moral or ethical code is that an action is only justified by the reason behind the action, if the reason for the deed is correct or justified then that is morally right, if the reason behind the deed or action is flawed, unintentionally wrong or intentionally wrong then i consider that to be wrong and unjust. i believe determining if a reason is wrong, right, just or unjust can be done by humans and requires no god to do so, which is why we have court rooms, judges and lawyers which run on the laws decided by humans, thefore morality does not require a god

eg. the holocaust was wrong because hitlers entire belief of a superior race of aryan people was incorrect, its a fact that no race is superior to another race therefore hitlers reasons behind the holocaust were incorrect and unjust.

another example:

the war in iraq is unjust because the reason we went was to find weapons of mass destruction
we found no weapons of mass destruction and bush admitted even if there were no weapons of mass destruction he would have gone anyway, so the reasons for the war were dishonest and wrong since there were no weapons, this was the sole reason used to justify the war and bush pretty much admitted they weren't the real reasons he went, therefore we went to war for dishonest reasons so we didn't have a good reason to go, therefore the war is morally wrong.

i only just came up with this theory so there may be flaws in it, feel free to pick them out


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Forum » Knowledge » Philosophy/Science » Debate: What Is The Basis Of Your Moral/Ethical Code?
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