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Forum moderator: TheWatcher, Menace, I_Guy, Aristotle  
Forum » Knowledge » Religious/Philosophical Debate » The Root of All Evil ((TV Documentary))
The Root of All Evil
Menace Date: Saturday, 18/Oct/08, 4:50 PM | Message # 1

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The Root of All Evil? is a television documentary, written and presented by Richard Dawkins, in which he argues that humanity would be better off without religion or belief in God. In the end this documentary left me whit a big conclusion that It’s time for a new reformation of the Christian and Muslim religions; a reformation quite as sweeping as the 16th century protestant reformation in the Roman Christian church. These two religions still have much to offer the world in terms of morality. Both religions should feel an urgent need to re-evaluate their books in the light of modern knowledge.

u can see the documentary here:



Lord_Meth Date: Saturday, 18/Oct/08, 7:59 PM | Message # 2

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good doc..thx menace

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Menace Date: Saturday, 18/Oct/08, 8:00 PM | Message # 3

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Quote (Joker13)
... money is the root of all evil

the mind behind the money is the root of all evil


Lord_Meth Date: Saturday, 18/Oct/08, 8:03 PM | Message # 4

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Quote (Menace)
the mind behind the money is the root of all evil

thus leading it back to human greed


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Boner-Jamz-11 Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 3:45 AM | Message # 5

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the rich people who can control everything they want.

#TeamHipster
#SWAGSWAG


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Kiba Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 12:51 PM | Message # 6

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lol menace since ur muslim im surprised you are promoting Dawkins, i read 'The God Delusion' that he wrote after that doc was made,
he is very anti religion bags pretty much everything about christianity and other religions
while i notice he doesnt say one thing about Islam, prob cause of fatwa's
il put some info about this book up

In The God Delusion, Dawkins argues that evolution has removed the need for a God hypothesis to explain life, and advances in physics may soon do the same for the universe. Further, the existence of God is a proper question for science, and the answer is no.
Religion, he says, is a by-product of evolution. Children are gullible and generally believe their parents because that's good for the human species (so teaching them religion, he asserts, is a serious form of child abuse) and/or it's like falling in love, which perpetuates the species. Similarly, evolution has hard-wired altruism into us, and that's why we are moral.

One can see how Dawkins became the poster boy of militant atheism. He's lively and entertaining, often witty, and collects great quotes. Here's one from Dawkins himself: "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it, a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

Here's one from Ambrose Bierce: "To pray: to ask that the laws of the universe be annulled on behalf of a single petitioner, confessedly unworthy."

And facts, for example, that every time we drink a glass of water, the odds are good that we will imbibe at least one molecule that passed through the bladder of Oliver Cromwell.

So he's an attractive champion for atheistic fundamentalists. But he never escapes a vicious circularity: because there is no God, nothing that could count in God's favour can be accepted; another explanation must be found. I can't think of anything Dawkins would accept as evidence, miracles, for example, he would write off as hallucination or some other psychological dysfunction

Added (08/Oct/19, 12:51 Pm)
---------------------------------------------
On nearly every page, I found myself wanting to argue, not just with his arguments (or mere assertions), but with the often slipshod or superficial way he puts them. He probably doesn't intend to caricature religion so wildly, but he seems to assume that because there can be no argument for religion his profound ignorance of theology and philosophy is irrelevant. To Dawkins, all faith is blind faith, whereas science is brave, noble, true, free of assumptions and cultural conditioning, and solely responsible for progress, the triumphant onward march of mankind (in which his faith is touchingly blind). He seems unaware that here he is fighting a doomed rearguard action for modernism in a world that has good reason not to trust science and technology as he does. It's the blinkered optimism of the long-discredited logical positivists and A.J. Ayer.

It baffles me that people like Dawkins can believe that if we could just rid the world of religion we would also rid it of prejudice, hypocrisy, violence and exploitation. People are prejudiced and exploitative not because they are religious but because they are human: secularists are no better, and often worse. Dawkins of course, disagrees: there are very few atheists in prisons, he suggests.

He lambasts arguments for God on the basis of probability, but unblushingly claims there are "very probably" alien civilisations "whose superhuman powers make them godlike beyond the imaginings of theologians".

He is spectacularly inept when it comes to the traditional philosophical arguments for God, such as the cosmological, the ontological and the arguments from design. (He wonders that Bertrand Russell could find the ontological argument hard to disprove; Dawkins himself can dismiss it with a couple of sneers.)

The proofs are "easily exposed as vacuous" he says, and the argument for design is the only one still in use. Both assertions are simply false. This would be like me, a non-scientist, claiming that Newtonian physics are no use today because Einstein and quantum physics proved them wrong.

That same capacity for facile undergraduate muddle-headedness emerges when he considers the Gospels: they are fiction from start to finish, composed late, and unreliably transmitted. Sorry Richard, reading Bart Ehrman doesn't make you competent to pronounce. I'd like to make a couple of Olympian pronouncements of my own: "scientific" and "rational" are not synonyms; to describe something is not to explain it; and faith is not necessarily blind, as the scientific disciplines themselves demonstrate


I looked at the moon so full and so bright
And then at the fireplace with its flickering light
And realised why this world will never be right

eboyd Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 1:22 PM | Message # 7

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Although I am a non-believer (not an atheist though) I completely agree with you. I hate how 1. If ýou are an atheist you must attack religion with no theological understanding and 2. The arrogant way most scientists approach their work in that field. They have this idea that religion is the perpetual root of all evil and will lead to our doom. No matter what you believe, it is a FACT that religion, on a small scale, has set moral boundaries that otherwise wouldn't exist and has given us order and structure, which has it's pros and cons, but so far I do not believe the cons outweigh. Sure religion has caused more war than any one cause. Sure there have been people of high theological status that have used their status for granted. But the common benevolence of mankind, including, if not especially, those of us who are enraptured in a religion, stands high above all of that.

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EmSeeD Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 4:21 PM | Message # 8

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Quote (Menace)
The Root of All Evil? is a television documentary, written and presented by Richard Dawkins, in which he argues that humanity would be better off without religion or belief in God. In the end this documentary left me whit a big conclusion that It’s time for a new reformation of the Christian and Muslim religions; a reformation quite as sweeping as the 16th century protestant reformation in the Roman Christian church. These two religions still have much to offer the world in terms of morality. Both religions should feel an urgent need to re-evaluate their books in the light of modern knowledge.

sounds good. but i think there would still be war and violence even without religion. leaders just use the religion as an excuse for they're own agenda, mostly for they're business etc. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. not money, the Love of money. its kinda like what that south park episode said, even when they got rid of religion those otters were still fighting over other shit.


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Lord_Meth Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 4:47 PM | Message # 9

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LMAO and the love of money is caused by the greed, lust, and desire for it LMAO

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eboyd Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 5:16 PM | Message # 10

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i agree with EmSeed. i think the only reasons atheism hasn't cause any wars is that 1. it hasn't been widely accepted until about 75 years ago. religious wars have gone on over thousands of years. and 2. we live in a society where we are witnessing the aftermath of these religious wars and we have learned to tolerate much better than we did 1000+ years ago, mainly due to the higher availability of education, specifically referring to history classes and social sciences. sure, there's a war that has been going on in Jerusalem for quite some time now over religion and it probably isn't going to end sometime soon, but that area doesn't have education as freely available either. i truly feel that if atheism was as widely accepted 1000 years ago as it is today we would have had just as many wars, in effect, as Christian crusades.

my new theme song



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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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Menace Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 5:25 PM | Message # 11

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Quote (eboyd)
i agree with EmSeed. i think the only reasons atheism hasn't cause any wars is that 1. it hasn't been widely accepted until about 75 years ago. religious wars have gone on over thousands of years. and 2. we live in a society where we are witnessing the aftermath of these religious wars and we have learned to tolerate much better than we did 1000+ years ago, mainly due to the higher availability of education, specifically referring to history classes and social sciences. sure, there's a war that has been going on in Jerusalem for quite some time now over religion and it probably isn't going to end sometime soon, but that area doesn't have education as freely available either. i truly feel that if atheism was as widely accepted 1000 years ago as it is today we would have had just as many wars, in effect, as Christian crusades.

as i said eric the complex institution of power called religion is the cause of wars as in the complex power of the secular state and dont say that we had just as many wars, in effect, as Christian crusades cause u cant know that and dont FORGET the empires that lived 1000 years ago were monarchies that were based on religion the secular idea is new u ever heard of the Holy Roman Empire or the Greater French Empire?? the power structure of those days had as proof religion to justify why the kings were superior i cant say if secularism were introduced more quicker it would be more better as well as if was introduced we would still have maybe equal at power wars


eboyd Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 5:29 PM | Message # 12

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those powers were going to make their giant empires regardless of religion. you know i am a non-believer, but let's be real. if atheism was widely accepted instead, then these greedy rulers would have found another way to rule the people. just think about it. are there not atheist leaders? people who many atheists look up to? it's not religion that is the problem, it is corrupted leadership.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

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Menace Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 5:38 PM | Message # 13

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Quote (eboyd)
those powers were going to make their giant empires regardless of religion. you know i am a non-believer, but let's be real. if atheism was widely accepted instead, then these greedy rulers would have found another way to rule the people. just think about it. are there not atheist leaders? people who many atheists look up to? it's not religion that is the problem, it is corrupted leadership.

u can now that eric u just cant cause religion as a institution was the first centralized authority of power the main problem is NOT religion is the institution of it thats where i see nobody gets me cause in the end i always preach against centralized authority as in religion is the same we see the same effects religion have that secular states have too the same symptoms if u dont want corrupted leadership eric dont have a leader use alternative methods as well as in religion too problems will always be but dont overrate the evil in mankind cause aint that big is the way we feed it and grow it we aint born whit it and in the end WE DONT KNOW ERIC u just dont know turn back the time u must young padawan lol biggrin


eboyd Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 6:02 PM | Message # 14

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Quote (Menace)
the main problem is NOT religion is the institution of it

cut out everything after institution in that sentence. institutionalization is what the problem is and that is EXACTLY what i said in my last comment. whether it is religion or some other kind of centralization of power, that is the underlying problem, not religion itself and i see that you sort of get that. the problem is that nature is a beautiful chaos and what humans do, either by instinct or because of enculturation, is they try to organize this natural beauty which goes directly against it. that is what creates these problems. reality is that everything is better off being left to grow on it's own without the aide of institutionalization and that is the problem with religion that you are seeing.


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Menace Date: Sunday, 19/Oct/08, 6:06 PM | Message # 15

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Quote (eboyd)
cut out everything after institution in that sentence. institutionalization is what the problem is and that is EXACTLY what i said in my last comment. whether it is religion or some other kind of centralization of power, that is the underlying problem, not religion itself and i see that you sort of get that. the problem is that nature is a beautiful chaos and what humans do, either by instinct or because of enculturation, is they try to organize this natural beauty which goes directly against it. that is what creates these problems. reality is that everything is better off being left to grow on it's own without the aide of institutionalization and that is the problem with religion that you are seeing.

yup and thats what im preachin a thing called Anarchy and thats what im tryin to point i would say in a fundamentalist way but Anarchy is the last hope hate it or love it


Forum » Knowledge » Religious/Philosophical Debate » The Root of All Evil ((TV Documentary))
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