| ilikebacon3000 |
Date: Thursday, 22/Sep/11, 12:39 PM | Message # 31 |
Emcees
Posts: 3979
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well at mayo they get paid a dollar more per hour, and we're all eligible for raises every 3 months, we could easily make the same amount they do, i'm just too lazy to take my employee knowledge tests.
our managers deal with all of the daily paperwork, drop off bank reports, do all of the same food-preperation we do, the only thing they don't have to do is mop/sweep/wash dishes. they deal with the delivery trucks and unload all the food, they do all the scheduling, they have to work a mandatory 55 hours a week, i don't know, i mean they do quite a bit where I work.
the only gripe I have is that they get free food and we don't, but even all of my mangers personally agree that the crew should get free food and when they are able to get away with it, they give us free shit.
Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
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| Menace |
Date: Thursday, 22/Sep/11, 8:42 PM | Message # 33 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Exactly, if someone remembers here, Futurama had an episode in which they promoted Fry to "Executive Delivery Boy". It meant nothing and he made lesser, but hey, he had such a title. This is the basic structure of the workplace/industry, the crust hands down meaningless titles and names so the workers can feel important. In reality, most of them make no sense, but hey, your dick is small, you live on minimum wage but you are an "waste management and disposal technician" so even though in reality you are just a garbage man, that "technician" part makes any girl instantly cum. 
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| ilikebacon3000 |
Date: Thursday, 22/Sep/11, 10:17 PM | Message # 34 |
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Emcees
Posts: 3979
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Alright, I catch what you're saying exactly then. Funny this came up when it did, my manager got a bonus today for 300 bucks for running the store efficiantly, but luckily I have an awesome General Manager that actually puts the bonus money back into the store for the most part. She buys us assloads of really high grade industrial cleaner (not the stock shit the company provides that is harsh and doesn't do shit), buys us mops, she's ordering us all more shirts so we will have more than one work outfit.... Ah I love my GM. She actually offered me a raise today, and she got us a hookup with the local ice cream business. We give the owner of the ice cream business free meals in return for all of his "defective" ice cream crates that he can't sell due to stupid shit, like expiration dates, cracks in the boxes, etc. Legit. We have a freezer full of Haagen-Daaz, Nestle drumsticks, and other random high grade ice cream all due to her... Free of charge for us to eat whenever we want
SORRY OFF TOPIC
Anyways, in that regard, I fully agree with you, it's bullshit that my GM's manager Jimmy gets paid as much as he does.. But then again, he's put in his dues with the company. I'm not being hostile or anything, I'm just saying that he has put in work with the company, and our CEO is the original CEO, he started the first store and ran it as a regular worker/manager for a long time. I feel like he legitimately worked for it. What about guys like him?
Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
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| ilikebacon3000 |
Date: Friday, 23/Sep/11, 0:44 AM | Message # 36 |
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Emcees
Posts: 3979
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Quote (eboyd) the CEOs you refer to that supposedly earned their way to the top while the rest of us are struggling at the bottom:
i feel like most of that last post was somewhat irrelevant. he worked his way up, and even though it's wrong, in america, you can pretty much cut corners and get to the top, it's dog eat dog. he ate his way to the top, and based on what I've heard of him through co-workers (people on my level, with kids and shit that are probably in more of a financial predicament than I am) he's a nice, hard working dude. he still drops in on certain days and comes and makes tacos and shit during lunch (i don't work days or I probably would have met him by now.)
He started a business, worked hard for the money he used to invest into other stores, and it all ended up generating profit. I don't see what's so wrong with that.
The distribution of wealth is a whole other subject IMO, alot of those people inherited that money and didn't do shit. But what about the ones, like my CEO, who actually worked their way up the food chain (no pun intended) and worked hard, saved up money, invested wisely, and profited off of it? Are they not entitled to anything?
And he's created thousands of jobs for people in the southwest, along with most other franchise owners. they create millions of jobs.
how would an ideal fast food chain work under your system? there would have to be something like a CEO to keep a common ground between all of the stores.
Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
Message edited by ilikebacon3000 - Friday, 23/Sep/11, 0:45 AM
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| eboyd |
Date: Friday, 23/Sep/11, 2:00 AM | Message # 37 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (ilikebacon3000) Are they not entitled to anything?
they're entitled to what they work for and nothing more. i guarantee even your gracious CEO is making WAAAAAY more money than he deserves.
Quote (ilikebacon3000) And he's created thousands of jobs for people in the southwest, along with most other franchise owners. they create millions of jobs.
such an irrelevant point. so he opened a business and thanks to him thousands of people throughout the south make minimum wage, many of which have to work an extra job as well just to make ends meet. meanwhile, he makes about 20 plus times that amount and i guarantee, just like every other CEO, that when his corporation does bad the first thing he's going to do is start laying people off and closing down locations. cutting down on his salary will be a distant afterthought from there.
Quote (ilikebacon3000) how would an ideal fast food chain work under your system? there would have to be something like a CEO to keep a common ground between all of the stores.
1. what makes you assume i would support anything that even remotely resembles a fast food chain??? for one, the food is practically toxic, and the business models for most chains consolidate power to a central entity.
2. there are Worker Cooperative models that work much like networks in a similar fashion to corporate chains, such as the Mondragon Corporation based in Spain which employs 90,000 workers throughout the world and runs just fine with no hierarchical structure.
really though man, i've been over all of this with you. how many times do i really have to jog your memory about shit like this?
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| eboyd |
Date: Friday, 23/Sep/11, 2:29 PM | Message # 40 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (J-Breakz) u still haven't learned anything, even after i destroyed all of your lib-soc theories.
you haven't "destroyed" any of my theories. you've given me good points to think about throughout a mass of berating that made me rethink how i approach some of my theories but nothing more. there are plenty of points you have made that i have opposed quite nicely in return as well. all in all, shit talk between us aside, we have had a good debate that goes back and forth with you out-debating me at times and vice versa at others.
Quote (J-Breakz) how would u determine his worth?
based on his labor and the productivity thereof in comparison to the available resources in that given economy. basically, he worked x hard and/or for y long and produced z amount of product, so he'll receive A amount of pay which is a constant number that represents the percentage of the economy that he makes up prior to doing any labor, factored with x, y, and z. and yes, his managerial/administrative work does count as labor. he does not, however, get extra bonus pay just for having been the prime investor. for example, if then people go into business and one of them pays ten bucks to create the business while everyone else pays nothing, though everyone does equal work, when the business begins making millions of dollars, all the investor is owed back is the amount he paid on his investment. he shouldn't receive any type of consistent bonus pay above the other workers just because he paid $10 -- or even $100000 -- once. as soon as he is fully compensated for his share of the investment, they are all on equal footing in terms of the investment.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Friday, 23/Sep/11, 2:52 PM | Message # 41 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote
you haven't "destroyed" any of my theories. you've given me good points to think about throughout a mass of berating that made me rethink how i approach some of my theories but nothing more. there are plenty of points you have made that i have opposed quite nicely in return as well. all in all, shit talk between us aside, we have had a good debate that goes back and forth with you out-debating me at times and vice versa at others.
yeah but its the shit talk that keeps it so entertaining for me
Quote based on his labor and the productivity thereof in comparison to the available resources in that given economy. basically, he worked x hard and/or for y long and produced z amount of product, so he'll receive A amount of pay which is a constant number that represents the percentage of the economy that he makes up prior to doing any labor, factored with x, y, and z. and yes, his managerial/administrative work does count as labor. he does not, however, get extra bonus pay just for having been the prime investor. for example, if then people go into business and one of them pays ten bucks to create the business while everyone else pays nothing, though everyone does equal work, when the business begins making millions of dollars, all the investor is owed back is the amount he paid on his investment. he shouldn't receive any type of consistent bonus pay above the other workers just because he paid $10 -- or even $100000 -- once. as soon as he is fully compensated for his share of the investment, they are all on equal footing in terms of the investment.
I still feel like we're going to be throwing around the same exact arguments tho. You kno any good mexican places in Glendale? Mexican food in San Diego is WAY better than the places i've tried over here in LA
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| Menace |
Date: Friday, 23/Sep/11, 3:09 PM | Message # 42 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Over 800 million people are members of a cooperative.
Cooperatives provide 100 million jobs worldwide, 20% more than multinational enterprises.
Large segments of the population are members of co-operatives
In Asia 45.3 million people are members of a credit union. (Source: Association of Asian Confederation of Credit Unions, Annual Report 2007/2008)
In Argentina, there are 12,670 co-operative societies with over 9.3 million members - approximately 23.5% of the population. (Source: "Las Cooperativas y las Mutuales en la República Argentina", Instituto Nacional de Asociativismo y Economia Social (INAES), 30 June 2008)
In Belgium, there were 29,933 co-operative societies in 200.
In Bolivia, 2,940,211 people or one -third of the population is a member of the 1590 co-operatives. ( Source: Diagnóstico Nacional Cooperativo (DNC), 2008 as reported in Boletín Informativo aciaméricas.coop Nº65, December, 2008)
In Brazil, 7.6 million people are members of 7,600 cooperatives. (Source: Organisation of Co-operatives of Brazil)
In Canada, four of every ten Canadians are members of at least one co-operative. In Quebec, approximately 70% of the population are co-op members, while in Saskatchewan 56% are members. Source: Co-operative Secretariat, Government of Canada.
In Colombia over 4.8 million people or 10.6% of the population are members of the 8,124 co-operatives in the country. The movement reports an annual growth rate of 7.78% with 348,249 new members joining co-operatives in 2009. (Source: CONFECOOP. Gestión para construire una mejor opción de vida: Desempeno del Sector Cooperativo Colombiano 2009)
Costa Rica counts over 10% of its population as members of co-operatives.
Finland's, S-Group has a membership of 1,468,572 individuals which represents 62% of Finnish households. (Source: SOK Corporation Annual Report 2004)
In France, 23 million people are members of one or more co-operatives or approximately 38% of the population. 75% of all agricultural producers are members of at least one co-operative and 1 in every 3 persons is a member of co-operative bank. (Source: Top 100 des Entreprises Coopératives et panorama sectoriel, 2010)
In Germany, there are 20 million people who are members of co-operatives, 1 out of 4 people.
In Iran, there are over 130,000 co-operative societies with 23 million members or approximately 33% of the population. (Source: http://www.taavongaran.ir/En/ )
In Indonesia, 27.5% families representing approximately 80 million individuals are members of co-operatives. (Source: Ministry of Co-operative & SMEs, Indonesia,2004)
In Japan, 1 out of every 3 families is a member of a co-operatives.
in Kenya 1 in 5 is a member of a co-operative or 5.9 million and and 20 million Kenyans directly or indirectly derive their livelihood from the Co-operative Movement.
In India, over 239 million people are members of a co-operative.
In Malaysia, 6.78 million people or 27% of the total population are members of co-operatives.(Source: Ministry of Entrepreneur and Co-operative Development, Department of Co-operative Development, Malaysia, Statistics 31 December 2009)
In New Zealand, 40% of the adult population are members of co-operatives and mutuals. (Source: New Zealand Co-operative Association, 2007)
In Norway of 4.8 million people, 2 million are members of co-operatives. Many people are members of several co-operatives, therefore, the total number of memberships are much higher. (Source: The Co-operative Centre of Norway)
In Paraguay, 783,000 people or 18% of the population are members of 1,047 co-operatives. These have a direct impact on the livlihoods of over 6 million people. (Source: Instituto Nacional de Cooperativismo, INCOOP)
In Spain, in 2008 15% of the population or 6.7 million people are members of a co-operative. (Source: CIRIEC, Las grandes cifras de la economía social)
In Singapore, 50% of the population (1.6 million people) are members of a co-operative.
In Uruguay, in 2008-2009 1 out of every 3 persons is member of a co-operative according the National Co-operative Census which reported initial results in February 2011. More information
In the United States, more than 29,000 co-operatives operate in every sector of the economy and in every congressional district; Americans hold over 350 million co-operative memberships. (Source: National Co-operative Business Association www.ncba.coop/ncba/about-co-ops/research-economic-impact)
Co-operatives are significant economic actors in national economies
In Belgium, co-operative pharmacies have a market share of 19.5%.
In Benin, FECECAM, a savings and credit co-operative federation provided USD 16 million in rural loans in 2002.
In Brazil, co-operatives are responsible for 37.2% of the agricultural GDP in 200 and total GDP of 5.39% in 2009. Brazilian agricultural co-operatives exported their products for a total of USD 3.6 billion. Health co-operatives provided medical and dental services to 17.7 million people. (Source: Organisation of Brazilian Co-operatives: Report 2010)
In Bolivia, Cooperativa de Ahorro y Crédito "Jesús Nazareno" Ltda. (CJN) handled 25% of the savings in Bolivia in 2002.
Canadian maple sugar co-operatives produce 35% of the world's maple sugar production.
In Côte d'Ivoire co-operatives invested USD 26 million for setting up schools, building rural roads and establishing maternal clinics.
In Colombia, the 8,124 co-operatives are responsible for 4.96% of the GDP in 2009 . They employ over 137,888 people - 46% of which are men and 54% women. and some sectors are providing a significant proportion of the jobs - 22.27% of all health sector jobs are provided by co-operatives, 14.7% of the jobs in the transport sector, 7.7 % in agriculture and 6.44% of the jobs in the financial sector. Co-ops provide 91% of all microcredit in the country. (Source: CONFECOOP. Gestión para construire una mejor opción de vida: Desempeno del Sector Cooperativo Colombiano 2009)
In Cyprus, the co-operative movement held 30% of the market in banking services, and handled 35% of all marketing of agricultural produce.
In Denmark, consumer co-operatives in 2007 held 36.4% of consumer retail market. (Source: Coop Norden AB Annual Report 2007)
Finnish co-operative groups within Pellervo were responsible for 74% of the meat products, 96% of dairy products; 50% of the egg production, 34% of forestry products and handled 34.2% of the total deposits in Finnish banks.
In France, the co-operative movement has a turnover of 181 billion Euros. Co-operatives handle 60% of retail banking, 40% of food and agricultural production, and 25% of retail sales. (Source: Top 100 des Entreprises Coopératives et panorama sectoriel, 2010)
Hungary, consumer co-operatives members of Co-op Hungary are responsible for 14.4% of the national food and general retail sales in 2004. (Source: Co-op Hungary, Statistical Data 2004)
In Iran, co-operatives contribute 6% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). (Source: http://www.taavongaran.ir/En/ )
In Japan, the agricultural co-operatives report outputs of USD 90 billion with 91% of all Japanese farmers in membership. In 2007 consumer co-operatives reported a total turnover of USD 34.048 billion with 5.9% of the food market share. (Source: Co-op 2007 Facts & Figures, Japanese Consumers' Co-operative Union)
In Kenya, co-operatives are responsible for 45% of the GDP and 31% of national savings and deposits. They have 70% of the coffee market, 76% dairy, 90% pyrethrum, and 95% of cotton.
In Korea, agricultural co-operatives have a membership of over 2 million farmers (90% of all farmers), and an output of USD 11 billion. The Korean fishery co-operatives also report a market share of 71%.
In Kuwait, the Kuwaiti Union of Consumer Co-operative Societies whose members are 6.5% of the Kuwaiti population handled nearly 70% of the national retail trade in 2007.
In Latvia, the Latvian Central Co-operative Union is responsible for 12.3% of the market in the food industry sector.
In Mauritius, in the agricultural sector, co-operators play an important role in the production of sugar, vegetable, fruit and flower, milk, meat and fish. Nearly 50% of sugar-cane planters are grouped in co-operatives and the share of co-operatives in the National Sugar Production is 10%. Co-operative Societies also account for more than 60% of national production in the food crop sector - 755 of onion consumption, 40% of potatoes and about 70% of fresh green vegetables are produced by co-operatives. In addition, the Co-operative bus sector represents some 30% of the national bus transport. (Source: Ministry of Industry, Small & Medium Enterprises, Commerce & Cooperatives )
In Moldova, the Central Union of Consumer Co-operatives is responsible for 6.8% of the consumer market.
In New Zealand, 22% of the gross domestic product (GDP) is generated by co-operative enterprise. Co-operatives are responsible for 95% of the dairy market and 95% of the export dairy market. They hold 70% of the meat market, 50% of the farm supply market, 70% of the fertiliser market, 75% of the wholesale pharmaceuticals, and 62% of the grocery market. (Source: New Zealand Co-operative Association, 2007)
In Norway, agricultural co-operatives hold 96% of the market for raw milk and 55% of the cheese market, 80% of the imber market, over 70% of the egg and fur markets, and 52% of the seed market. The 130 consumer co-operatives have 24% of the consumer market, 71 co-operative building and housing associations hold 15% of the housing stock in Norway and in urban areas like Oslo hold 40% the housing market; insurance co-operative provide hold 30% of the non-life insurance market. (Source: The Co-operative Centre of Norway and Norwegian Agricultural Statistics, 2008.
In Poland, dairy co-operatives are responsible for 75% of dairy production.
In Portugal, approximately 3000 co-operatives are responsible for 5% of the Gross National Product of the country. (Source: Prime Minister of Portugal address to ICA Expo, 23 Oct. 2008)
Co-operatives and mutuals in Scotland account for 4.25% of the Scottish Gross Domestic Product, having an annual turnover of GBP 4 billion and assets of GBP 25 billion. ( Source: Co-operative Development Scotland web site, and "Co-operatives in Scotland: A powerful force....", 2007)
In Singapore, consumer co-operatives hold 55% of the market in supermarket purchases. NTUC Fairprice was the 2nd largest retailler in Singapore with a S$1.65 billion in turnover. (Source: AsiaOneBusiness: Dairy Farm is top retailer in S'pore, 20 August 2009)
In Slovenia, agricultural co-operatives are responsible for 72% of the milk production, 79% of cattle; 45% of wheat and 77% of potato production.
In Sweden, consumer co-operatives held 17.5% of the market in 2004. (Source: Coop Norden AB annual report 2004)
In Switzerland, the two largest consumer co-operatives - Migos and Coop - are responsible for 8% of the GDP of Switzerland.
In the UK, the largest independent travel agency is a co-operative.
30,000 co-operatives in the United States that operate 73,000 places of business throughout the U.S. own more than USD 3 trillion in assets, and generate over USD 500 billion in revenue and USD 25 billion in wages. (Source: National Co-operative Business Association www.ncba.coop/ncba/about-co-ops/research-economic-impact)
In the United States more than 900 rural electric co-operatives deliver electricity to more than 42 million people in 47 states. This makes up 42% of the US electric distribution lines and covers 75% of the US land mass. (Source: National Rural Electrific Cooperative Association: cwww.nreca.org/AboutUs/Co-op101/CooperativeFacts.htm)
In Uruguay, co-operatives are responsible for 3% of the GDP. They produce 90% of the total milk production, 340% of honey and 30% of wheat. 60% of co-operative production is exported to over 40 countries around the world. More information
In Vietnam, co-operatives contribute 8.6% of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP).
Co-operatives create and maintain employment
Co-operatives provide over 100 million jobs around the world, 20% more than multinational enterprises.
In Argentina, co-operatives are responsible for providing direct employment to over 233,000 individuals. (Source: Instituto Nacional de Asociativismo y Economia Social (INAES), September 2007)
In Bolivia, 1590 co-operatives provide 32,323 direct jobs and 128,180 indirect jobs.
(Source: Diagnóstico Nacional Cooperativo (DNC), 2008 as reported in Boletín Informativo aciaméricas.coop Nº65, December, 2008 )
In Canada, co-operatives and credit unions employ over 155,000 people. The Desjardins movement (savings and credit co-operatives) is the largest employer in the province of Québec.
In Colombia, the co-operative movement provides 137,888 jobs through direct employment and an additional 559,118 jobs as worker-owners in workers co-operatives - providing 3.65% of all jobs in the country. (Source: CONFECOOP. Gestión para construire una mejor opción de vida: Desempeno del Sector Cooperativo Colombiano 2009)
In Czech Republic, 1,298 co-operative societies with 785,202 individual members provide 56,042 jobs. (Source: Selected Data on the Czech Co-operative Movement in 2009)
In France, 21,000 co-operatives provide over 1million jobs representing 3.5% of the active working population. (Source: Top 100 des Entreprises Coopératives et panorama sectoriel, 2010)
In Germany, 8,106 co-operatives provide jobs for 440,000 people.
In Indonesia, co-operatives provide jobs to 288,589 individuals. (Source: Ministry of Co-operative & SMEs, Indonesia, 2004)
In Iran, co-operatives have created and maintain 1.5 million jobs. (Source: http://www.taavongaran.ir/En/ )
In Italy, 70,400 co-operative societies employed nearly 1 million people in 2005. (Source: Camere di Commercio d'Italia, "Secondo rapporto sulle imprese cooperative")
In Kenya, 250,000 people are employed by co-operatives.
In Slovakia, the Co-operative Union represents more 700 co-operatives who employ nearly 75,000 individuals.
In Spain, co-operatives provided jobs to 21.6% of the labour market in 2007. (Source: Ministerio de Trabajo e Inmigración. Secretaría General de Empleo. Dirección General de Fomento de la Economía Social, del Trabajo Autónomo y de la Responsabilidad Social de las Empresas)
In the United States, 30,000 co-operatives provide more than 2 million jobs (Source: National Co-operative Business Association www.ncba.coop/ncba/about-co-ops/research-economic-impact)
All these statistics are living proof that Erik's claims are not "theory" but living practice, most of the firms that are mentioned here have no BOSSES and wages are calculated as Erik said. So J-Breakz you tried to ignore this in the last debate, but until you recognize this, i will always use it.
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| eboyd |
Date: Friday, 23/Sep/11, 3:13 PM | Message # 43 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (J-Breakz) yeah but its the shit talk that keeps it so entertaining for me
it irritates the fuck out of me tho lol
Quote (J-Breakz) I still feel like we're going to be throwing around the same exact arguments tho.
true.
Quote (J-Breakz) You kno any good mexican places in Glendale? Mexican food in San Diego is WAY better than the places i've tried over here in LA
shiiiiit... i can't say i've had much Mexican in San Diego but i think we have some pretty bomb Mexican food joints here in LA. i can't think of anything specifically in the Glendale area but i do recall having gone to a few in the somewhat nearby neighborhoods of Echo Park and Eagle Rock, though idr where because it's been a while. however, if you are willing to travel a little bit (like 10-20 minutes), there are a few good spots near me and near the outer edges of the Burbank area. for example, Daniel's Tacos in Sun Valley is damn good if you're just looking for the traditional burritos, tacos, tortas, etc. and they're open until like 2 in the morning. there are also random taco trucks throughout the city that are pretty good for that. if you are looking more for a carniceria where you can buy a full plate of tender, grilled meat with veggies, beans, rice and tortillas for a reasonable price, there's a place i always go to called La Vaquita in Tujunga. i always get a plate with a pound of ranchera meat (a specific cut and preparation style of carne asada) and i make sure to ask for a good amount of grilled bell peppers on the plate with it. they usually put some of that as well as green onions with the buds attached, zucchini, peppers, and they give me a sauce on the side. i also usually ask for a lime. also, they have really good fresh made chicharrones.
as for more in the Glendale area, idk if there is anything worth while or not but my dad might. i'll ask him and get back to you on that.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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