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To I-Guy,
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 27/Jan/10, 5:23 AM | Message # 1 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
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I want to make a statement directed towards I-Guy concerning determinism. Maybe he won't read this because we have gotten heated and we have beefed a little that resulted in insults directed towards each other: My father doesn't affiliate himself with determinism nor is he into philosophy that much. But he has always told me what you have said, he made the conclusion after becoming a meteorologist in the navy that everything in the known universe is based on action and reaction or some shit like that, i forget. He told me that everything is predetermined since I was a child (I actually had a conversation with him on the phone tonight and he made the same statement again). I had stubbornly denied this since I could remember just because I guess I didn't want to believe I have no freedom. You have helped me accept this idea. I'm starting to realize that I was being naive and immature for denying this and trying to refute the view using every argument that has been made against it. I'm going to man up though, and admit I was wrong. Thank you for helping me accept this and having me think in a new way, even if I don't agree with you on everything.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 27/Jan/10, 5:36 AM | Message # 2 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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...I guess erik deserves some credit, too.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 27/Jan/10, 8:46 AM | Message # 3 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Wow, cool. Thanks for that. I'm sure I've been closed minded to some of your views too but I'll admit that arguing with you has completely helped me strengthen my views. Before I had a lot of contradictory ideas and you helped me find the wrinkles in my ideology. I still know of some things that I am unsure of when it comes to my philosophy on society and that I'm still struggling with but I would have never noticed them without your help. For example, I'm SHOCKED you haven't asked how criminal law would be handled in a society like mine where authority on every level is absent  but I won't reveal anymore so that I don't allow my entire philosophy to fall apart against your arguments before I get a chance to find a solution 
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 27/Jan/10, 3:10 PM | Message # 4 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (eboyd) I'm SHOCKED you haven't asked how criminal law would be handled in a society like mine where authority on every level is absent
I thought it was based on majority rule on what should be done with the person that committed the crime.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 27/Jan/10, 4:17 PM | Message # 5 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) I want to make a statement directed towards I-Guy concerning determinism. Maybe he won't read this because we have gotten heated and we have beefed a little that resulted in insults directed towards each other: My father doesn't affiliate himself with determinism nor is he into philosophy that much. But he has always told me what you have said, he made the conclusion after becoming a meteorologist in the navy that everything in the known universe is based on action and reaction or some shit like that, i forget. He told me that everything is predetermined since I was a child (I actually had a conversation with him on the phone tonight and he made the same statement again). I had stubbornly denied this since I could remember just because I guess I didn't want to believe I have no freedom. You have helped me accept this idea. I'm starting to realize that I was being naive and immature for denying this and trying to refute the view using every argument that has been made against it. I'm going to man up though, and admit I was wrong. Thank you for helping me accept this and having me think in a new way, even if I don't agree with you on everything.
Respect for being honest. And no there's no beef. As Erik said in the other thread, statements can be interpreted to be less than polite, even if the intention is of another nature. I don't hold things against people in debates, I see them as a resource for me to strengthen and challenge my views, as Erik was saying. So in a sense, opponents are valuable. Regarding our political debate, we all want the same thing: a virtually free society. It's a noble desire either way. The means of getting there defers but respect belongs to everyone for wanting a better society. But again, respect due for humbling yourself.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 27/Jan/10, 8:21 PM | Message # 6 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (J-Breakz) I thought it was based on majority rule on what should be done with the person that committed the crime. No, not at all. Majority rule would be terrible when it comes to criminal law. It would probably be more based on a mix of parecon principles and actually judiciary law procedure. I'm not sure yet though. I haven't delved into that aspect deep enough yet.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| ilikebacon3000 |
Date: Wednesday, 27/Jan/10, 9:19 PM | Message # 7 |
Emcees
Posts: 3979
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Quote (eboyd) where authority on every level is absent
*off topic* How would schools work? */off topic*
Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
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| eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 27/Jan/10, 11:59 PM | Message # 8 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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I personally propose non-compulsory community run collectivized schools in which cooperative education, rather than judgment and student competition, is the basis of learning.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Thursday, 28/Jan/10, 1:22 AM | Message # 9 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (eboyd) No, not at all. Majority rule would be terrible when it comes to criminal law. It would probably be more based on a mix of parecon principles and actually judiciary law procedure. I'm not sure yet though. I haven't delved into that aspect deep enough yet.
Alright then I won't bring it up
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Thursday, 28/Jan/10, 1:23 AM | Message # 10 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (eboyd) I personally propose non-compulsory community run collectivized schools in which cooperative education, rather than judgment and student competition, is the basis of learning.
would this be completely free?
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| Menace |
Date: Thursday, 28/Jan/10, 2:10 PM | Message # 11 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (ilikebacon3000) *off topic* How would schools work? */off topic* There are actual democratic schools all over the world and they are more efficient then the normal ones . Here is the principle these schools are based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_education . Quote (eboyd) No, not at all. Majority rule would be terrible when it comes to criminal law. It would probably be more based on a mix of parecon principles and actually judiciary law procedure. I'm not sure yet though. I haven't delved into that aspect deep enough yet. Anarchists reject the ideas of law and a specialized justice systems, but we are not blind to the fact that anti-social action may not totally disappear in a free society. Therefore, some sort of "court" system would still be necessary to deal with the remaining crimes and to adjudicate disputes between citizens. These courts would function in one of two ways. One possibility is that the parties involved agree to hand their case to a third party. Then the "court" in question would be the arrangements made by those parties. The second possibility is when the parties cannot not agree (or if the victim was dead). Then the issue could be raised at a communal assembly and a "court" appointed to look into the issue. These "courts" would be independent from the commune, their independence strengthened by popular election instead of executive appointment of judges, by protecting the jury system of selection of random citizens by lot, and by informing jurors of their right to judge the law itself, according to their conscience, as well as the facts of a case. As Malatesta pointed out, "when differences were to arise between men , would not arbitration voluntarily accepted, or pressure of public opinion, be perhaps more likely to establish where the right lies than through an irresponsible magistrate which has the right to adjudicate on everything and everybody and is inevitably incompetent and therefore unjust?".
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| eboyd |
Date: Friday, 29/Jan/10, 0:22 AM | Message # 12 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (Menace) Anarchists reject the ideas of law and a specialized justice systems, but we are not blind to the fact that anti-social action may not totally disappear in a free society. Therefore, some sort of "court" system would still be necessary to deal with the remaining crimes and to adjudicate disputes between citizens. These courts would function in one of two ways. One possibility is that the parties involved agree to hand their case to a third party. Then the "court" in question would be the arrangements made by those parties. The second possibility is when the parties cannot not agree (or if the victim was dead). Then the issue could be raised at a communal assembly and a "court" appointed to look into the issue. These "courts" would be independent from the commune, their independence strengthened by popular election instead of executive appointment of judges, by protecting the jury system of selection of random citizens by lot, and by informing jurors of their right to judge the law itself, according to their conscience, as well as the facts of a case. As Malatesta pointed out, "when differences were to arise between men , would not arbitration voluntarily accepted, or pressure of public opinion, be perhaps more likely to establish where the right lies than through an irresponsible magistrate which has the right to adjudicate on everything and everybody and is inevitably incompetent and therefore unjust?". interesting. is there anywhere i can read more about this?
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| Joker13 |
Date: Friday, 29/Jan/10, 12:53 PM | Message # 13 |
Emcees
Posts: 391
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Quote (eboyd) you haven't asked how criminal law would be handled in a society like mine where authority on every level is absent
fucking looney toon world
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| eboyd |
Date: Friday, 29/Jan/10, 1:49 PM | Message # 14 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (Joker13) fucking looney toon world 
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| Menace |
Date: Friday, 29/Jan/10, 2:09 PM | Message # 15 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (eboyd) interesting. is there anywhere i can read more about this? Quote (Joker13) fucking looney toon world
Looney toon world ? LMAO . Look at the prisons and how efficient are they LOL . They are schools for criminals rather then jails . And not to say that most of the people there are not actual criminals pot dealers , pot smokers , blacks , Lations etc . DUDE COME ON !! this is a LOONEY TOON WORLD not ours LOL . Quote (eboyd) interesting. is there anywhere i can read more about this? That's taken from the Anarchist FAQ here is the link to the FAQ :
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html Here is the link to the section of the FAQ which deals whit crime and such :
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secI5.html#seci58
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