Quote (J-Breakz)
exactly, they're self managed by the employees. So all you're doing is giving more work and responsibility to less workers in a company. All I'm saying is that by observation I have learned that there are a lot of ppl who are unable to manage their work and would rather have someone else spend the time doing the job of dividing up the work and checking up on it.
First of all though, what do you mean less workers? If anything it's more workers. And if you are insinuating that co-ops only work when they are smaller, I'd beg to differ and possibly even say that the opposite is true. Co-ops are often quite large, and if a co-op ever feels as though it is getting too large it does what Rainbow Grocery does and splits up into multiple interconnected sections that are individually self managed and federated. Second, no worker is forced to rotate as management if they don't want to of if they can't. Whatever the critic that you have though, the statistics stand. Worker co-ops employ more people around the world, many of those common laborers that you would probably suspect as having no management skills, than any other form of business and they are typically more productive in the short run and at least as productive in the long.
Quote (J-Breakz)
Kinda like how an artist will sign a deal with a record label so they don't have to worry about the business aspect of the music. they can just spend more time actually recording and making the music.
The artists I know of sign those deals because they think the record labels are just going to make them big. What they often don't realize is that they are giving the label creative control over their music (because most labels today won't push your music if you don't sign a 360 deal) and they still need to push their own music in order to be successful. That particular deal is pure scam. You still need to be a good business person to get your music out there. That's one reason I can give props to some artists I'd consider wack.
Quote (abanks)
really? thats a typical response from a blind patriot. you walk up to someone and they say go to sweden? shut up
No, but rednecks that would protect the American flag even if the government took their house and turned it into a McDonald's say shit like "you don't like America? Then leave!" all the time, then they go on to talk about how America is the greatest country in the world even though they've never even left the county they were born in.
Quote (abanks)
are you not doing it now? wtf is thew thesis above called a response?
No I'm not. I'm providing you evidence to support a well established left-wing theory that things operate much better when workers are given control over the means of production, which is, btw, the very basis of socialism. The evidence I am providing is based on somewhere in the vicinity of 100 years of actual practical application through a large portion of industry. Now, with thousands of established co-ops and 800 million worker-owners worldwide, and with evidence pointing toward the assertion that co-ops are more productive, the "thesis above" is called an assertion based on facts -- a highly well formulate and fact driven opinion.
Quote (abanks)
i know you didnt wiki that shit, thats your opinion and your ideals as to how the job market should work
No, I didn't wiki it, but I can do you one better. I have been gathering evidence from hundreds of sources for the past 2 or 3 years on worker co-ops and I have been basing my opinion of how we can improve the job market, which is an opinion that is shared by millions of people, on this evidence.
Quote (abanks)
unlike you i dont like cutting pasting and going back pages to look up shit
Maybe that's why you miss all the points I make.
Quote (abanks)
you twisted my shit in saying that fighting for freedom as a slave was not a fight worth fighting for and you were out of line for that.
No, I didn't say or imply that at all. It is you who is misunderstanding what I say. What I was implying was that your assertion that fighting against the wage system was a fight not worth fighting is similar to a slave asserting that fighting against the slave system is a fight not worth fighting, albeit to a lesser extent, when look where we're at now with slavery.
Do I need to draw you a diagram to help you understand it or are you going to manage with the above?
Quote (abanks)
1
: a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
2
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence
3
: a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another
4
: drudge, toiler
I accidentally deleted a part that I wanted to specifically point out here and it will be difficult on my phone to go back and grab it again, so w/e. It is worth note to know that the definition of the word slavery has changed over the years. Those that worked for a family to pay off debts during feudalism and up until the invention of the indenture which was a contract created to give the illusion of the agreement being a free choice, and so that specific form of slavery was renamed "indentured servitude" even though it was not done to rid people of slavery, but rather to, at best, improve the conditions of the slaves and, at worst, redefine slavery so as the slaves wouldn't realize they were signing themselves into slavery. This form of slavery has many similarities to wage labor and the only truly binding trait between all forms of slavery that have been around over the years is exploitation, or the use of another human being through control of their labor for profit. In other words, if someone controls my work and reaps the benefits of my labor, I am their slave. With a very diverse range of forms of slavery over the years, that is the only aspect held in common between each. Chattel slavery is, of course, much more extreme and harsh than the others, but that does not exclude others from being forms of slavery.
Quote (abanks)
typical response from someone who thinks he wants to help but in actuality does the exact same thing he is protesting. confused little anarchist arent we?
Lol, if it really matters to you that much, I will tell you that I am an independent personal trainer, however, I had to stop my practice because I went on a football scholarship last year to Mississippi but I'm back in Cali now living with my family and looking for work. Will I probably have to settle for wage labor? Absolutely. Does that make me a hypocrite? Absolutely not because, as I've pointed out, I all people, including anarchists, have to settle for wage labor due to a lack of co-ops in the US and due to the fact that self-employment isn't much of a valid option for most and it is becoming less of one as the recession hits harder and harder on small business owners and the government bails out "too-big-to-fail" businesses instead of letting them fail and selling the businesses off to the workers. So actually, if I was a wage laborer, you would have just made my point for me.
Quote (abanks)
because of that statement i win, you lose and i will respond no more
have a good at work you fuckin wage slave
Lol!
. See you people in the free market . Goodbye.
lol