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The Book of Job
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| I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 1:19 PM | Message # 46 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (Menace) oh and Pat Condell i saw him on that dudes page in my opinion Pat Condell is a right wing reactionary he attacks in a dogmatic way his opposition and he overreacts to everything i don't understand how he can reconcile atheism's secular humanism to his very non pluralistic thinking
Yeah, I know he can be over the top. Alot of people like him because alot of what he says is well said and very bluntly true at times. He's a sensationalist, so I get what he's doing. Quote (ilikebacon3000) Anyways.
I_guy just curious how did you get that ink stamp effect? I know where and how to do it, but every time I try it, the lighting is really fucked up so it looks nothing like it should.
I used Photoshop. But you do have to make sure your lighting is right when you take the shot.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 2:38 PM | Message # 47 |
Emcees
Posts: 912
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Quote (eboyd) One could argue that those who are faithful are too ignorant and lazy to actually read their history and study facts. Don't insult someone's beliefs if you don't want yours insulted as well. I was just answering the purpose of the book because he didn't understand..... secondly, No you cant argue that because being "faithful" means not being lazy. 
 "UNTIL THEY STOP ME, BURY, MURDER ME OR DROP ME, I GOT...THUG LUV FOR MY NATIONWIDE POSSE"
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| MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 2:43 PM | Message # 48 |
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Emcees
Posts: 912
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Quote (Menace) the story is not about that if you read the original story form the Jewish bible they turned the story into a Christian version where submission is the only answer there is no actual point to this story if you read it Because you've read both? Or just some "fact" you picked up along the way somewhere??? Honestly....? Added (26/Aug/09, 2:43 Pm)
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Quote (Menace) he was saying the same thing in a simple manner he relies on common sense and rationalism so he can't believe in stuff that have no appealing to reason as a source of knowledge or justification Exactly!!! Kinda like when everyone said the earth was flat cuz it made common sense....... 
"UNTIL THEY STOP ME, BURY, MURDER ME OR DROP ME, I GOT...THUG LUV FOR MY NATIONWIDE POSSE"
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| MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 3:03 PM | Message # 49 |
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Emcees
Posts: 912
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Quote (8Diagrams)
How isn't it???? I mean, all you have to do is listen to what you WANT to hear when it comes to teachings. Faithful means Complete devotion is all I'm saying, there's no being lazy when you're completely devoted. Just trying to shut down Eriks argument basically cuz he tried to make me look like a fool. 
"UNTIL THEY STOP ME, BURY, MURDER ME OR DROP ME, I GOT...THUG LUV FOR MY NATIONWIDE POSSE"
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| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 3:17 PM | Message # 50 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue) Because you've read both? Or just some "fact" you picked up along the way somewhere??? Honestly....? don't misquote me because what i say i don't pull out my ass  and yes I've read both while the Jewish one has a more philosophical meaning the Christian one does what most stories from the bible do preach crude and blatant submission Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue) "faithful" means not being lazy faith means by dictionary definition - unquestioning belief that does not require proof or evidence faithful means keeping faith; maintaining allegiance; constant; loyal so i don't know how you can correlate lazy whit such words Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue) Exactly!!! Kinda like when everyone said the earth was flat cuz it made common sense....... while there was no evidence indicating why the earth is flat people had FAITH that the earth was flat the same as people have FAITH in the supernatural claims of the bible while there is no evidence people take it on FAITH so until it is proven you can't use that analogy whit me
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| MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 3:27 PM | Message # 51 |
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Emcees
Posts: 912
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Quote (Menace) preach crude and blatant submission
God forbid a book try and make better men out of us all.... Quote (Menace) faithful means keeping faith; maintaining allegiance; constant; loyal
A lazy man can't maintain allegiance Quote (Menace) while there was no evidence indicating why the earth is flat people had FAITH that the earth was flat the same as people have FAITH in the supernatural claims of the bible while there is no evidence people take it on FAITH so until it is proven you can't use that analogy whit me
Same for me when you prove there is NO God 
"UNTIL THEY STOP ME, BURY, MURDER ME OR DROP ME, I GOT...THUG LUV FOR MY NATIONWIDE POSSE"
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| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 3:46 PM | Message # 52 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue) Same for me when you prove there is NO God your argument for God is the same as the argument for people believing that the earth was flat so you fall in the same dungeon because as the earth being flat had no evidence God has no evidence too so the burden of proof is on you  Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue) A lazy man can't maintain allegiance you can't correlate words like that because its relative and depends on what contexts you use it because i can say to you like this " A Lazy Man swears an allegiance to some thing because that thing will back up his laziness " so it's RELATIVE so you can't apply this to this Job context because the storyline does not allow this the arguments of God against Jobs are not philosophically inclined if you read them they are very arrogant in tone so i don't know in the hell you can't correlate laziness whit this story i don't know they don't even mention Job being lazy LOL
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| MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 4:45 PM | Message # 53 |
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Emcees
Posts: 912
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Quote (Menace) our argument for God is the same as the argument for people believing that the earth was flat so you fall in the same dungeon because as the earth being flat had no evidence God has no evidence too so the burden of proof is on you
Not quite cuz prayer and belief changed my life dramatically... don't get me wrong, I dont claim to be a good Christian by any means cuz i still sin like a motherfucker but I go through stages where I can get my shit together and 95% of the time its with GOD's help(i believe) so it's a bit different cuz there's a little more there than blind faithQuote (Menace) you can't correlate words like that because its relative and depends on what contexts you use it because i can say to you like this " A Lazy Man swears an allegiance to some thing because that thing will back up his laziness " so it's RELATIVE so you can't apply this to this Job context because the storyline does not allow this the arguments of God against Jobs are not philosophically inclined if you read them they are very arrogant in tone so i don't know in the hell you can't correlate laziness whit this story i don't know they don't even mention Job being lazy LOL
I never said JOB was lazy - lol I said the story was told to make the ignorant/lazy man(lazy in faith) see what JOB went through to be rewarded in the end so that we are not lazy with our faith but maintain a steady devotion.
"UNTIL THEY STOP ME, BURY, MURDER ME OR DROP ME, I GOT...THUG LUV FOR MY NATIONWIDE POSSE"
Message edited by MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue - Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 4:47 PM
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| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 4:54 PM | Message # 54 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue) I never said JOB was lazy - lol I said the story was told to make the ignorant/lazy man(lazy in faith) see what JOB went through to be rewarded in the end so that we are not lazy with our faith but maintain a steady devotion. rewarded ?? if i recall he was a God fearing man that had a wealthy life if you recall he told god like why you did this to me what your trying to prove and God replied whit does lighting come at your will or something so the story quietly ended whit Job agreeing whit God's arrogant answer that's why i am saying in the Christian story i can't see any laziness or showing that laziness is not a virtue or some shit like that Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue) Not quite cuz prayer and belief changed my life dramatically... don't get me wrong, I dont claim to be a good Christian by any means cuz i still sin like a motherfucker but I go through stages where I can get my shit together and 95% of the time its with GOD's help so it's abit different cuz there's a little more there than blind faith It's all good man i mean you alone know what's in your consciousness and all that i can't debate that i was just debating on a universal level you know but the burden of proof still lies upon you LOL
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| Watcher |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 6:24 PM | Message # 55 |
Watchers
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[quote=8Diagrams]I can't believe you think you're worthy of defending Christianity. [/quote]
good that you bring this up...and no i never claimed this as you already know, i have a problem with cleaning the pipes according to Psalm 51 (up to verse 13), we need to be reconciled with God first in order to go out and preach/defend the faith to others, so in my case i am an "unworthy" candidate  , im sure others here have already picked up on it
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| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 26/Aug/09, 6:53 PM | Message # 56 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (Watcher) according to Psalm 51 (up to verse 13), we need to be reconciled with God first in order to go out and preach/defend the faith to others, so in my case i am an "unworthy" candidate scared , im sure others here have already picked up on it :D that Psalm 51 up to verse 13 screams pastor Ted Haggard 
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| I_Guy |
Date: Thursday, 27/Aug/09, 1:50 AM | Message # 57 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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The book of Job presents two points of interest. In a way it suggests that God is aware of evil and will allow it to happen to good people in order to prove a point, and it suggests that God shares the errors of the flawed human psychology. As for the first point, it is interesting that Satan and God speak in the first place as if they don't completely despise each other to the point of destruction. It is interesting that they simply negotiate and compromise in such respectful coexistence. Very odd. Furthermore, focusing on Satan, the fact that he negotiates his actions with God suggests one of two things: either Satan only acts under God's permission, or Satan only acts for specific reasons. The common conception of Satan is a deliberately ruthless agent of destruction and unjustified hate, among other things. Yet, after a discussion with God, he does evil. So the question must be asked whether the Satan we know is always out for destruction as most people think, or if he only chooses to do evil for specific reasons. If it is the latter, we should reevaluate our conception of Satan. However, if it is the former, why would he even negotiate with God before acting. If he is such a blood thirsty destroyer, why wouldn't he have acted against Job already without even conversing with God, for that is the conception of his inherent nature. Alternately, perhaps Satan only acted under God's permission as stated earlier. Well the problem here is obvious: it would clearly contradict the free will theory, and it would clearly suggest that God permits unnecessary evils. It would also make one ponder the classic question: why wouldn't God simply destroy the devil in the first place, hence destroying any possible evil, that is, if he possessed such power over him, especially since he's omnipotent (it could be argued that destroying anything is bad, however when destroying the possible causer of evils, how could that be bad? but that is beyond the central question). So what is it with their negotiating? It is here where the point would be made that God and Satan negotiated for the reason of proving opposite points. This reintroduces the second point of interest. The fact that they both wanted to prove a point, suggests that they both share the errors of the flawed human psychology. At what point was it necessary for God to prove his point? What depended on it? It seems nothing did. Yet God chose to prove his point, that Job would worship him under any circumstance. Could this be the pride of God? Would pride be a characteristic of an all-perfect being? It could be argued that pride is an asset and should be treated as a good thing. But when pride becomes reckless, wouldn't it be considered bad, or even evil? At what point does pride become hubris? It is clear that the pride God exercised created a reckless situation for Job. At the expense of Job (and especially his family), God proved his unneeded point. God is omniscient, therefore he would have known that Job would worship him no matter what. Why prove the point to your inferior enemy? Through this God seems to have made a mistake. How can this be? He is all-perfect. The story suggests that due to free will Satan acted evilly. This sparks another point. God gave the devil free will to do such evil. Yet Christians prefer to relieve God of responsibility for the evil. Interestingly in our society, people are sued and prosecuted for such negligence and forced to take indirect responsibility.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| EmSeeD |
Date: Thursday, 27/Aug/09, 3:46 AM | Message # 58 |
Heads
Posts: 11464
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Quote (I_Guy) perhaps Satan only acted under God's permission as stated earlier yeah satan was saying Job is only such a good person because God was making everything go so well for him, that if his life wasn't so well he wouldn't be such a good servant of God anymore, God to prove him wrong stopped protecting Job and let Satan do that stuff, Satan needed God's permission in a way, what it said in the commentary of my Bible when i was reading it was that Satan can't do it without Gods permission. But the book was written at the same time Israel had been captured by some other country so that's what the story is really about, its saying to the Israelite's, to still be good servants of God even when things aren't going so well for them, that they are like Job and need to persevere through the hard times.
http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
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| Render215 |
Date: Thursday, 27/Aug/09, 12:22 PM | Message # 59 |
Emcees
Posts: 796
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God has always sent angels to hurt people... their wings dipped in blood, I like the relationship between Lucifer and God.
"People said his brain was infected by Devils..."
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| Menace |
Date: Thursday, 27/Aug/09, 12:37 PM | Message # 60 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (EmSeeD) But the book was written at the same time Israel had been captured by some other country so that's what the story is really about, its saying to the Israelite's, to still be good servants of God even when things aren't going so well for them, that they are like Job and need to persevere through the hard times. exactly it has a more historical relevance then religious relevance because when the story was written the brutal Assyrians were rampaging trough Judea Quote (Render215) God has always sent angels to hurt people... their wings dipped in blood, I like the relationship between Lucifer and God. i could see a good blockbuster in that LOL and AMEN TO I_GUY LOL
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