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Are We Only Selfish?
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:04 PM | Message # 1 |
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Posts: 2162
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Everything that everyone does is for selfish reasons, you can't argue that. You can't help others until you have helped yourself. And though, I believe there's a lot of truth behind objectivism i don't think you can consider it a philosophy, am i correct?
livin life like some cheesy movie
Message edited by J-Breakz - Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:06 PM
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| I_Guy |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:12 PM | Message # 2 |
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Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) And though, I believe there's a lot of truth behind objectivism i don't think you can consider it a philosophy, am i correct?
Wrong, it is a philosophy in ethics. It may seem like it isn't due to the name it was given, and I will be the first to agree that the name is a terrible choice. But the fact stands that it is a philosophical doctrine. Quote (J-Breakz) Umm, yes I am aware of that. Everything that everyone does is for selfish reasons, you can't argue that. You can't help others until you have helped yourself.
So you think it's okay to embrace selfishness? Join the Laveyan Satanists then (although they might actually be a little bit less selfish than capitalism LOL). Embracing selfishness is assuring perpetual suffering and misery. What a terrible world you want. :/ What does "money is the root of all evil" mean to you?
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:17 PM | Message # 3 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) Wrong, it is a philosophy in ethics. It may seem like it isn't due to the name it was given, and I will be the first to agree that the name is a terrible choice. But the fact stands that it is a philosophical doctrine.
Well, no the reason why i said you can't consider it a philosophy is because that there has been philosophers that have argued whether or not it is a philosophy but i have not read enough on that. We'll just say it is one. Quote (I_Guy) So you think it's okay to embrace selfishness? Join the Laveyan Satanists then (although they might actually be a little bit less selfish than capitalism LOL).
EVERYONE EMBRACES SELFISHNESS. Name an act that people do that isn't selfish?
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| I_Guy |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:21 PM | Message # 4 |
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Posts: 1792
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Sure everyone has to be selfish to an extent, BUT NO ONE SHOULD WANT TO BE.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:23 PM | Message # 5 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) Sure everyone has to be selfish to an extent, BUT NO ONE SHOULD WANT TO.
No, everyone is selfish. Not to an extent, they're just selfish. Let me ask this again, name an act that a person does that isn't selfish?
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| I_Guy |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:28 PM | Message # 6 |
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Posts: 1792
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So then you don't think altruism exists? A guy has an internet router set up in his apartments. It is strong enough to allow all surrounding apartment occupants access to the internet service. The guy could easily make it password protected so that only he can use it. But instead he decides to make no password and leave it unprotected. So all surrounding apartments use his service. That isn't selfish now is it?
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:33 PM | Message # 7 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) anit-altruism
I'm guessing you mean if I'm anti-altruism? And no I am not. Quote (I_Guy) A guy has an internet router set up in his apartments. It is strong enough to allow all surrounding apartments access to the internet service. The guy could easily make it password protected so that only he can use it. But instead he decides to make no password and leave it unprotected. That isn't selfish now is it?
That is selfish. Because he did that to get a good feeling that all the surrounding apartments have access to the internet service. He did that purely for himself, so he could feel good that he is providing a service for free for people who may not be able to afford internet.
livin life like some cheesy movie
Message edited by J-Breakz - Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:33 PM
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| I_Guy |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:34 PM | Message # 8 |
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Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) That is selfish. Because now he gets a good feeling that all the surrounding apartments have access to the internet service. He did that purely for himself, so he could feel good that he is providing a service for free for people who may not be able to afford internet.
I didn't say that or even really imply that. He could simply be apathetic. It still would not be selfish.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:38 PM | Message # 9 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) I didn't say that or even really imply that. He could simply be apathetic. It still would not be selfish.
Alright, so if he was apathetic about it then he decided to not create a password because he was to lazy to create one. He felt better not creating one than going through the work of making one. He still did it for himself... And really the whole act of setting up the internet is so HE can use the internet. That is also selfish.
livin life like some cheesy movie
Message edited by J-Breakz - Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:41 PM
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| I_Guy |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:40 PM | Message # 10 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) Alright, so then he decided to not create a password because he was to lazy to create one. He felt better not creating one than going through the work of making one. He still did it for himself...
No it wasn't that he was lazy and to satisfy his laziness he didn't do it. That's not it. He simply didn't care. There is a difference. By the way you should know damn well that selfishness is on a continuum.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:44 PM | Message # 11 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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the whole act of setting up the internet is so HE can use the internet. That is selfish. The fact that he doesn't care that whether or not people can use the internet can be thought as selfish too. The thing is everybody, everyday, is doing stuff that gives them pleasure. I think this is a good thing unless it affects someones personal and natural rights.
livin life like some cheesy movie
Message edited by J-Breakz - Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:49 PM
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| I_Guy |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:56 PM | Message # 12 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) the whole act of setting up the internet is so HE can use the internet. That is selfish. The fact that he doesn't care that whether or not people can use the internet can be thought as selfish too. The thing is everybody, everyday, is doing stuff that gives them pleasure. I think this is a good thing unless it affects someones personal and natural rights.
Wrong, there is room for indifference that escapes selfishness. That is really the only kind of unselfish behavior there is. But that isn't saying it is selfless either. Selfless acts may not exist. But apathetic acts can exist and not be selfish. The spectrum is from apathetic to selfish, not from selfless to selfish.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:58 PM | Message # 13 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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And really altruism is selfish as well because altruists do it because they get a kick from helping people. Added (04/Dec/09, 10:58 Pm)
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Quote (I_Guy) Wrong, there is room for indifference that escapes selfishness. That is really the only kind of unselfish behavior there is. But that isn't saying it is selfless either. Selfless acts may not exist. But apathetic acts can exist and not be selfish. The spectrum is from apathetic to selfish.
Alrighty, so you have pointed out an exception. Are you saying we should embrace apathy?
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| I_Guy |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 10:59 PM | Message # 14 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) And really altruism is selfish as well because altruists do it because they get a kick from helping people.
Not necessarily. Check out the book "The Altruistic Personality" by Samuel & Pearl Oliner. They argue for altruism, although I am skeptical, they do provide very good evidence. Quote (J-Breakz) Alrighty, so you have pointed out an exception. Are you saying we should embrace apathy?
It's not an exception, its the entire other end of the issue. My point is that selfishness is on a spectrum, and apathy is what makes that possible. I am simply re-validating my earlier point that we can be selfish to an extent (which you were arguing against).
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Friday, 04/Dec/09, 11:04 PM | Message # 15 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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It's about people who helped jewish families through the holocaust right? But the people helping them would have to feel pleasure from helping them and seeing them survive. That's the motivation in helping.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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