Evidence For God? - Page 7

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 1:54 PM | Message # 91

OGs

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circular reasoning because i use the Bible?? you're the one using the Bible when youre talking about satan!!

Quote (Menace)

dude are you retarded ?? i will repeat myself "The world WAS once perfect, so it WAS within the capacity of God to rig the world up so it can be perfect. Yet somehow he allowed the devil to intervene." I will say it again God already knew that we will fail this test because he has all omni's he deliberately made a crime against HUMANITY in allowing us to fail and throughout history constantly massacring each other it's not our FAULT he knew that we will fail and he still tested us is like your metaphor he didn't gave us medicine to make us healthy he made us ill so he an give us medicine we were completely healthy in the first place why he did what he did ?? why he let the devil intervene knowing we will fail in the first place he deliberately let him intervene you don't see the moral dilemma here ?? he brought death and torment on us because he knowingly let us fail

ok...your problem with God as i see it is why did he place satan in the garden... the answer i dont know (not that its unanswerable)

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 2:40 PM | Message # 92

Heads

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An example of circular reasoning:

Atheist: "why do you believe the bible to be true?"

Christian: "because it is the infallible word of God."

Atheist: "how do you know it is the infallible word of God?"

Christian: "because God said so."

Atheist: "when and where did he say so?"

Christian: "I don't know when, but he said so and it was written down in the bible."

I would say that 75% of Christians use some form of circular reasoning or other and the more fundamentalist Christian they are the more they will use such reasoning. I would say 90% of people on your level of fundamentalism or more use circular reasoning. I have seen you use it as well. If I have to I will point it out. That picture was more of just a pic I found and this thread was an excuse for me to use it

erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 2:50 PM | Message # 93

OGs

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... I would like it if you did point out how I used circular reasoning.

You talk about Satan (mentioned in the Bible), so I talk about Satan using the Bible...

Added (30/Oct/09, 2:50 Pm)
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Btw, what do you mean my level of fundamentalism? I'm the one allowing for things like evolution, which many Christians don't accept.

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:05 PM | Message # 94

Heads

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Anyone who considers the bible to be the infallible word of God and considers other religions evil falls into some degree of fundamentalism. The pope's scientific advisor is a fundie who believes in evolution. My mom would be an example of a Christian who isn't a fundie. She thinks that the bible has a lot of misinformation because it was written by man but she believes in a loving, caring God and she believes in Jesus. I will find some of your circular reasoning in a moment.

erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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Menace

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:12 PM | Message # 95

Heads

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Quote (sodr2)

the answer i dont know (not that its unanswerable)

but God fucked it up for all us it's morally outrageous a conscious being deliberately doing what he did you know in many civilized countries what God did falls in the criminal offense category ?? unleashing something bad upon an unsuspecting individual and then blaming the individual

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:20 PM | Message # 96

OGs

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Quote (eboyd)

you were talking about levels of fundamentalism (and i think you were implying i was at a high level) so i was curious as to why you believed that. but forget about this now

any Christian believes God is the author of the Bible though they may interpret it differently. thats why denominations exist

Added (30/Oct/09, 3:20 Pm)
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Quote (Menace)

http://jeffleake.typepad.com/the_lau....od.html
i dont know if that will give you a satisfying answer, i just stumbled upon it

Message edited by sodr2 - Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:22 PM

I_Guy

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:36 PM | Message # 97

Heads

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Quote (sodr2)

i dont know if that will give you a satisfying answer, i just stumbled upon it

Yeah, but what do YOU think about it? You can't keep running to other people to do the thinking for you. If the logic doesn't work then the damn logic doesn't work. You should see that with your own mind and express your opinion on it, not run to some other source and let it cloud up the clarity of your own reasoning when it concerns the obvious.

Quote (sodr2)

I'm the one allowing for things like evolution

You do realize that evolution is in direct contradiction to the bible?

We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:40 PM | Message # 98

OGs

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Quote (eboyd)

There are, however, different levels of evidence that make them closer or further from absolute proofs than others. Within what I presented there are varying degrees of evidence and I will be the first to admit that some of them are supported by very little evidence at the moment. The one specifically that I presented that lacks a preponderance of evidence was the multiverse theory. There has been no observable evidence of any parallel universe existing, only theoretical evidence. The God hypothesis, however, has ZERO conclusive evidence lending the hypothesis credence. Therefore, not only does theism/deism bear the burden of proof due to the fact that they are making the claim, and that already lends credibility to the opposition, but the preponderance of evidence to the contrary, thought not absolutely conclusive, lends further credence to those opposing the claim. And if that doesn't push further in the direction of atheism already, the fact that you disregarded half of what I stated about the lack of necessity for God. What I said was that not only do we have sufficient evidence to believe that God is not necessary in the universe, but he/she/it is also counterintuitive and counterproductive to what science has theorized. For that reason, the ONLY TWO logically supported beliefs are agnosticism and agnostic atheism.

still wanna get back to this...

Added (30/Oct/09, 3:40 Pm)
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Quote (I_Guy)

Yeah, but what do YOU think about it?

i already said i dont know, therefore im getting other peoples opinions...nothing wrong with a little reading...what do i think about the actual article, as i said i just stumbled upon it , i dont know yet

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:41 PM | Message # 99

Heads

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No, I know PLENTY of Christians who consider the bible to be man's forgery of God's word yet they go to Christian churches and praise and love the lord just as much as any bible thumping fundie would. That doesn't make them any less Christian, it just means that they aren't fundamentalist. See, you are misinterpreting the word fundamentalist. Although it has a negative connotation it is not necessarily negative. Fundamental refers to the basics, traditional, or original versions of something. Christian fundamentalism, therefore, is based on the traditional teachings of Christianity and the more closely you follow the tradition the more you are a fundie. It has a negative connotation for Christians because the further back you go and the closer you go to tradition, the less logic is involved and the more immoral behavior you have. For example, early Christianity condemned marriage because it put a different love between you and your love of Christ. When Christianity finally accepted marriage it did so on the basis of a dowry (the father basically sells his daughter into marriage), usually in the form of an exchange, ie: the father of the female gets cattle and the husband-to-be gets the daughter (and I already know you will argue that "that was the culture at the time" but the bible only justified it and made it morally acceptable). On top of that, the bible specifically condemns womens rights and says that women are to work at the house. We consider these to be morally bankrupt practices today and fundies don't even follow them. The fundies of today are the liberals of yester year but they are still more fundie than todays liberal theists and you fall into that category.

erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:46 PM | Message # 100

OGs

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Quote (I_Guy)

You do realize that evolution is in direct contradiction to the bible?

you mean Genesis? well as i said the authors intent was not to determine science

Added (30/Oct/09, 3:43 Pm)
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Quote (eboyd)

i would assume they are mostly protestants, not catholics/orthodox

btw still having trouble pointing out my circular reasoning?

Added (30/Oct/09, 3:46 Pm)
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btw am i the only Christian on here?? its tough enough debating with you guys lol

Message edited by sodr2 - Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:44 PM

Boner-Jamz-11

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:55 PM | Message # 101

Rappers

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Bacon said he was TOUCHED in a Christian camp

#TeamHipster
#SWAGSWAG

TUMBLR CLICK CLICK CLICK!

Date: Friday, 30/Oct/09, 3:58 PM | Message # 102

Heads

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We have others. ThaScience and TheWatcher are Christians but although I can't speak for ThaScience, because he does debate on this occasionally, TheWatcher can't stand it when we bring up religion so he either gets mad or he just ignores it.

And no, I just haven't looked yet for your circular reasoning because I have better and more important things to do right now.