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UGHHH Jesus camp
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| ilikebacon3000 |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 2:51 AM | Message # 1 |
Emcees
Posts: 3979
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This is TRUELY sick.
I am a christan. However, I often read for myself on things like religon and things like that. I observe that in the book of Matthew, it says to pray in private. I even have my doubts about Christianity at times, and feel no shame, for god wouldnt have given me a brain or freewill if he didnt want me to use it. I actually try to learn MORE about other religons, so I know what I am arguing against when someone confronts me about it. I don't go out and say "HEY IM A CHRISTAN" to try to put myself on a pedestool. I dont lecture people on religon unless they bring it up, as I think that religon is a personal journey and can only be truely found through the will god has for them, and the persons past and their situation in life. However, it is Evangelical Fundementalists like this that make me ashamed to be a christan. They show NO respect for other peoples ideas or beleifs, and contradict themselves constantly. For example, in the Bible, it says love your neighbor. In fact, I think the main goal of the bible is to love. So how come I hear this crazy fat lady talking about "using tools to convert this nation in the name of christ"? I have a feeling the tools she is talking about are 12 gauges and homemade dynamite, which they will use to kill and destroy anyone who doesent agree with their so called "Truth". They are the Che Guevera's of Christanity, and embarress me greatly. I am sorry if you have ever run across one of these kinds of people. BTW, I think it sure is messed up that they claim to be a HUGE denomination of christanity. The majorty of these people never go beyond their home state, and are too brainwashed to even try to learn about other religons. They were FORCED into the religon at a young age, which in my opinion, isnt sincere at all.
Watch the rest of it on YT.
here is the first part.
Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
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| Uncharted |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 3:01 AM | Message # 2 |
Emcees
Posts: 4766
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yeah IMO a christain church on a sunday is like a convention for hyprocrites to meet and talk each other, only very few christains r very demoted and true about represting there religion in a normal church. This coming from a christain thats taken to church ALOT.
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| ilikebacon3000 |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 3:09 AM | Message # 3 |
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Emcees
Posts: 3979
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True.
I honestly think that all the stuff about "Not being holy enough" and fasting and doing good to earn salvation is crap.
I am a universilist christan. I beleive there IS a hell, but it is NOT forever and not alot of people go there.
Hell wasnt even mentioned until the catholics re-translated the bible to their likings (Correct me if i'm wrong erik/i-guy. If you jump in on this, feel free to educate me on whatever. Ya'll both know alot.)
Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
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| EmSeeD |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 5:03 AM | Message # 4 |
Heads
Posts: 11464
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dude i totally agree and feel exactly what you're saying. i used to belong to a church like that, it makes me kinda sad to think of it now, but these people think they are doing good but they have no idea, i know that from personal experience. its like they've been slowly brainwashed or programmed.
http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
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| eboyd |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 5:18 AM | Message # 5 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (ilikebacon3000) They are the Che Guevera's of Christanity, and embarress me greatly. WTF is wrong with Che Guevara?!?!?!? i mean i agree with you, but don't talk shit about a man you obviously haven't studied at all about (at least not unbiasedly). Che was a great man. don't be ignorant. oh, btw, in the bible it says we need to try to convert everyone to Christianity, so getting mad at Christians for trying to convert people is ridiculous, and this is coming from an unbiased view as i am an Agnostic with a heavy Atheist leaning. i promise you these people are good people who are just way overboard. look up Westboro Baptist Church or check the "Fag Phelps" thread if you want sick individuals who follow Christianity.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
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| ilikebacon3000 |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 6:15 AM | Message # 6 |
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Emcees
Posts: 3979
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Quote (eboyd) WTF is wrong with Che Guevara?!?!?!?
NO NO NO I meant it in the way as Che was a radical, and these people are radical. I meant it in a sense of how radical and into their beleifs they are, which can be good, or even GREAT if its the right views.
And I have studied Che some. I did a small report about him for my Speech class. I know basic facts about him, and for a while I knew things like his childhood stuff, and lots of details about what he did, but I sorta forgot. I went through about a week phase where all I read was about him. I figured that he was a cool guy, but he just wasnt someone I felt comfortable preaching to people about, because honestly I didnt feel passionatte about what he did. I do not deny what he did was great, but I just think I havent really realized all he did yet. Its alot like how I came upon Tupac. At first I saw him on shirts, and was like "he's cool". Then I read about him and I was like "Cool guy. Not my type of hero though". Then I actually started getting into his shit and I loved it. But yeah I know Che' was a really good guy and did alot of good. It just pisses me off that people wear him on shirts and dont even know his name or the slightest bit about what he did. Quote (eboyd) oh, btw, in the bible it says we need to try to convert everyone to Christianity
do you have scripture (from the new testament) to support this? I'd appericaite it. Don't look at this as an arugement, morely as a chance for me to learn something. In the book of Matthew, it also says not go around creating a scene with religon, and to keep your beleifs in private. And also, Im not mad a christans for trying to convert. Im mad at the fundementalists for
1. SCARING people into beliving using the idea of hell. (again, as of now, I am univerilistic christan)
2. Not respecting ANY other belifs, or even acknowlodging they could be wrong.
3. Saying that America is the holy land. (go watch the movie) WRONG. This is the native land, and if I am not mislead, the holy land is isreal.
4. Saying it is wrong for Islamics and Bhuddist Monks to die for what they beleive, then right then and there say they will die for what they beleive. That is a contradiction in itself. btw, I apperciate you jumpin on this Erik. Not that everyone else is stupid, its just I know Erik and I guy are pretty knowladgeable on the subject of religon/philosophy/etc etc... Quote (eboyd) so getting mad at Christians for trying to convert people is ridiculous,
Quote (eboyd) so getting mad at Christians for trying to convert people is ridiculous
Quote (eboyd) so getting mad at Christians for trying to convert people is ridiculous
Quote (eboyd) so getting mad at Christians for trying to convert people is ridiculous
Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
Message edited by ilikebacon3000 - Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 6:17 AM
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| eboyd |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 7:16 AM | Message # 7 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (ilikebacon3000) NO NO NO I meant it in the way as Che was a radical, and these people are radical. I meant it in a sense of how radical and into their beleifs they are, which can be good, or even GREAT if its the right views.
And I have studied Che some. I did a small report about him for my Speech class. I know basic facts about him, and for a while I knew things like his childhood stuff, and lots of details about what he did, but I sorta forgot. I went through about a week phase where all I read was about him. I figured that he was a cool guy, but he just wasnt someone I felt comfortable preaching to people about, because honestly I didnt feel passionatte about what he did. I do not deny what he did was great, but I just think I havent really realized all he did yet. Its alot like how I came upon Tupac. At first I saw him on shirts, and was like "he's cool". Then I read about him and I was like "Cool guy. Not my type of hero though". Then I actually started getting into his shit and I loved it. But yeah I know Che' was a really good guy and did alot of good. It just pisses me off that people wear him on shirts and dont even know his name or the slightest bit about what he did. oh, ok. yeah, i see what you're saying. it just came out in your initial comment wrong. Quote (ilikebacon3000) do you have scripture (from the new testament) to support this? I'd appericaite it. MAT 18:15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault,
just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your
brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every
matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he
refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a
tax collector. Quote (ilikebacon3000) Don't look at this as an arugement, morely as a chance for me to learn something. i'm not. don't worry, i'm looking at it exactly how you hoped i would. Quote (ilikebacon3000) And also, Im not mad a christans for trying to convert. Im mad at the fundementalists for
Quote (ilikebacon3000) 1. SCARING people into beliving using the idea of hell. (again, as of now, I am univerilistic christan) i'm with you here. Quote (ilikebacon3000) 2. Not respecting ANY other belifs, or even acknowlodging they could be wrong. also with you here. boy, sounds like you may be becoming an agnostic as well  (more toward the theist side, but still an agnostic). Quote (ilikebacon3000) 3. Saying that America is the holy land. (go watch the movie) WRONG. This is the native land, and if I am not mislead, the holy land is isreal. this is correct. Quote (ilikebacon3000) 4. Saying it is wrong for Islamics and Bhuddist Monks to die for what they beleive, then right then and there say they will die for what they beleive. That is a contradiction in itself. yep. you won't much like sodr2 then  Quote (ilikebacon3000) btw, I apperciate you jumpin on this Erik. Not that everyone else is stupid, its just I know Erik and I guy are pretty knowladgeable on the subject of religon/philosophy/etc etc... thanks!
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| ill |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 8:24 AM | Message # 8 |
Emcees
Posts: 2087
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im looking at this thinking howw can you believe 
The World Is Yours
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| Menace |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 10:10 AM | Message # 9 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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http://revcom.us/godoriginalfascist/
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 1:17 PM | Message # 10 |
OGs
Posts: 2772
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I think i know where St. Paul was comming from when he didn't permit women to preach in churches LMAO, JUST KIDDING!! Quote (ilikebacon3000) However, it is Evangelical Fundementalists like this that make me ashamed to be a christan.
excuse me, but what makes you think they're christian? Quote (ilikebacon3000) I honestly think that all the stuff about "Not being holy enough" and fasting and doing good to earn salvation is crap.
I dont know how to explain this, but a good indicator that you're on the path to salvation is if you're fasting and doing good. its not NECESSARY, but i mean...its something thats been done since the time of the Apostles..it shows youre in a good relationship with God, etc.... Quote (ilikebacon3000) I beleive there IS a hell, but it is NOT forever and not alot of people go there.
uh-oh...whered you get this idea from? Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
Matthew 7:13
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Quote (ilikebacon3000) Hell wasnt even mentioned until the catholics re-translated the bible to their likings
what about the rest of the Orthodox churches?? tell me then, where do sinners go when they die?? i think you just want everyone to be happy but you should remember that we *deserve* the most extreme punishment and suffering because we *sinned against God*....we should be in hell right now, but that's not the case...so its like a doctor giving us medication when we are ill....it is available, but if we dont take it, we WILL die Quote (EmSeeD) its like they've been slowly brainwashed or programmed.
the way i see it is, you first take it on by faith, just like your a little kid and you learn gravity or w/e....but when you grow up you scrutinize your beliefs and see if they're true or not IMO Quote (ilikebacon3000) In the book of Matthew, it also says not go around creating a scene with religon, and to keep your beleifs in private.
is there any scripture to support this? just wondering... Quote (ilikebacon3000) And also, Im not mad a christans for trying to convert. Im mad at the fundementalists for
1. SCARING people into beliving using the idea of hell. (again, as of now, I am univerilistic christan)
2. Not respecting ANY other belifs, or even acknowlodging they could be wrong.
3. Saying that America is the holy land. (go watch the movie) WRONG. This is the native land, and if I am not mislead, the holy land is isreal.
agree with you here, but we should be slow to anger (ie dont get mad about it, just ...i dunno, just dont be mad)
*edit* Quote (you) or even acknowlodging they could be wrong.
huh? so Jesus being only the prophet of God and NOT God <---i cant acknowledge that this is wrong?? Quote (ilikebacon3000) 4. Saying it is wrong for Islamics and Bhuddist Monks to die for what they beleive, then right then and there say they will die for what they beleive. That is a contradiction in itself.
Uhm.....you are a Christian right? you do know that it is wrong to be an muslim or a buddhist from a spiritual point of view? even muslims feel the same way that its wrong to be a Christian, same with most religions out there
but of course it is wrong to point out once they die that they will go to hell or w/e.... =========== now heres my little 2 cents...confusion regarding the Bible and its teachings as well as biblical contradictions are reasons why we need the church (there are much more important reasons of course) ....
i cant believe im watching all of this...its so bad i cant take my eyes off it lol
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
Message edited by sodr2 - Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 2:44 PM
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| ilikebacon3000 |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 4:12 PM | Message # 11 |
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Emcees
Posts: 3979
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Quote (sodr2) is there any scripture to support this? just wondering...
And when ye pray, ye shall not be as the hypocrites: for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward. 6:6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee. 6:7And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 6:8Be not therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 6:9After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 6:10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. 6:11Give us this day our daily bread. 6:12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 6:13And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. 6:14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 6:15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. Quote (sodr2) uh-oh...whered you get this idea from?
The actual idea of hell wasnt introduced until wayyyy after Jesus died. The catholics mis-translated the bible to their liking. Go to www.tentmaker.org and look. It's hard to explain, and I am still studying it myself. But anyone in their right mind knows that a loving, caring, compassionatte, graceful god wouldnt send people into a burning inferno to melt their souls forever and ever and ever. If god IS like that, I dont want to be in his Holy Army. How can I possibly enjoy heaven knowing that people are burning forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. Quote (sodr2) Uhm.....you are a Christian right? you do know that it is wrong to be an muslim or a buddhist from a spiritual point of view? even muslims feel the same way that its wrong to be a Christian, same with most religions out there
but of course it is wrong to point out once they die that they will go to hell or w/e....
I know that. But just think its dumb that christans sit there and say "Dont be a martyr" and then go do it themselves. In my opinion, the Muslims/Bhuddists/Xanists/whatever else are wrong, but if they want to die for their cause, let them do so. I cant control their life. And they cant control mine. Fundamentalists have this idea that they are ALWAYS right. I personally beleive that the Bible is the word of god, and that Jesus is my savoir. I have no proof that this is true, except faith. You cant say "THE BIBLE SAYS SO. So its true!". For all we know, Harry Potter wrote the bible. There is no logical, rational way to prove the idea that christianity/bhuddishm/islam or whatever else is true. You simply cant do it. So you must act upon faith. Quote (sodr2) biblical contradictions are reasons why we need the church
All the church is, is a place to learn about the bible. It wont magically make the contradictions go away. All people will do is re-interpret the bible to their liking. That doesent make them anymore holy. There is no RIGHT way to read the bible. It is what you make it, and that is all. Quote (sodr2) I dont know how to explain this, but a good indicator that you're on the path to salvation is if you're fasting and doing good. its not NECESSARY, but i mean...its something thats been done since the time of the Apostles..it shows youre in a good relationship with God, etc....
So what about the people in third-world countrys without churchs, and without food to fast??? Just because you dont fast means your not in a good relationship with god? I think it doesent matter if you go to church, or fast, or all that. I think all god wants is for you to have a relationship with him, and accecpt his free gift of salvation. That is all. He could care less if you give 1000000000 dollars to the church, or if you are smart or dumb. He loves you as you are. Thats where alot of christans/muslims/jews go wrong. The basis of all 3 religons (If I am correct. Correct me if im not) is to love. Yet it seems all we do fight and bicker. If ANY of the 3 Abrahamic religons want to stay alive, I think its best we stay freinds at least. We might not agree, but we must remeber we are like brothers on the tree of religon. I guess we sorta gotta look out for each other. I'd rather be in a Muslim or Jewish family than be a Xanist or Bhuddist. All 3 (judiasm/islam/chrisianity) all have the same roots. So we gotta chill out and remeber to love one another
Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
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| eboyd |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 6:11 PM | Message # 12 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (sodr2) agree with you here  sodr, i'm proud of you one thing though: fun⋅da⋅men⋅tal⋅ism
/ˌfʌndəˈmɛntlˌɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fuhn-duh-men-tl-iz-uhm] Show IPA
Use fundamentalist in a Sentence
–noun
1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a movement in American Protestantism that arose in the early part of the 20th century in reaction to modernism and that stresses the infallibility of the Bible not only in matters of faith and morals but also as a literal historical record, holding as essential to Christian faith belief in such doctrines as the creation of the world, the virgin birth, physical resurrection, atonement by the sacrificial death of Christ, and the Second Coming. from the arguments i've seen you present since we've had you here, you fit this description. so why would you down them when you yourself are a Christian Fundamentalist? Quote (ilikebacon3000) And when ye pray, ye shall not be as the hypocrites: for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward. 6:6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee. 6:7And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 6:8Be not therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. 6:9After this manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 6:10Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. 6:11Give us this day our daily bread. 6:12And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 6:13And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. 6:14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 6:15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. dude, that is talking about "don't pray in public" not "don't preach in public." it says nothing of "don't try to convert others to Christianity." it is a well known fact that the bible says it is your mission to go out and convert others. this is what has made Christianity so successful. Quote (ilikebacon3000) The actual idea of hell wasnt introduced until wayyyy after Jesus died. The catholics mis-translated the bible to their liking. Go to www.tentmaker.org and look. It's hard to explain, and I am still studying it myself. But anyone in their right mind knows that a loving, caring, compassionatte, graceful god wouldnt send people into a burning inferno to melt their souls forever and ever and ever. If god IS like that, I dont want to be in his Holy Army. How can I possibly enjoy heaven knowing that people are burning forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. hmmmm.... i'm intrigued. i'll have to check this out. thanks. Quote (ilikebacon3000) All the church is, is a place to learn about the bible. It wont magically make the contradictions go away. All people will do is re-interpret the bible to their liking. That doesent make them anymore holy. There is no RIGHT way to read the bible. It is what you make it, and that is all.  Quote (ilikebacon3000) So what about the people in third-world countrys without churchs, and without food to fast??? ummmm.... i think you meant to word this differently. people who are in third world countries without food are technically always fasting (sorry, that was BAD lol!)
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| eboyd |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 6:25 PM | Message # 13 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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here's the article that bacon was specifically referring to on that site sodr: http://www.tentmaker.org/ifhellisreal.htm
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| ilikebacon3000 |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 6:31 PM | Message # 14 |
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Emcees
Posts: 3979
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wow erik that was a pretty sick joke.
And I dont refer to myself as a fundamentilist because.
1. I have changed alot since... Whenever.
2. Just because I beleive in the bible doesent mean I think it is a historical record. For all I know, Harry Potter wrote that shit. Didn't some of the people who wrote the bible trip on shrooms some of the time? (No joke. I read about that somewhere.... FUCK I cant remeber.... But I'm being serious.)
Plus you have to take into mind that even the most intelligent man back then would be considered fairly dumb now-a-days. Added (04/Jul/09, 6:31 Pm)
---------------------------------------------
Yeah sodr I hate to break it to you, but hell is the biggest hoax ever. The bible you and I are reading are not the true word of god. It has been tainted and changed.
Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Saturday, 04/Jul/09, 6:50 PM | Message # 15 |
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OGs
Posts: 2772
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Matthew 25:41
“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
2Thessalonians 1:9
These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; That’s not enough for most people who don’t believe the Scriptures anyhow, but that's what God says. Quote (ilikebacon3000) But anyone in their right mind knows that a loving, caring, compassionatte, graceful god wouldnt send people into a burning inferno to melt their souls forever and ever and ever. If god IS like that, I dont want to be in his Holy Army.
im surprised at this...listen, as i said, we dont even deserve salvation, but God has given it to us anyways....God doesn't SEND people there, they send themselves there....just like someone refusing to take medication when they die Quote (ilikebacon3000) All the church is, is a place to learn about the bible. It wont magically make the contradictions go away.
1. It's a place of worship, even Jesus Himself accepted it: Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 2. It offers the Eucharist, the body of Christ, that we should take in remembrance of Him. John 6:53
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
John 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Don't tell me these are metaphors. Why would Jesus mention that He will remain in us if we eat His flesh/blood? If we could remain in Him without His body and blood, why would He even mention what He did? 3. Place to get baptized.
4. Jesus encouraged us to come together in worship:
For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20). you said you were a universilist christan....im not sure but i think most Christian denominations view them as heretics
Quote (ilikebacon3000) So what about the people in third-world countrys without churchs, and without food to fast???
people who never heard of Jesus will be judged according to their conscience and leading a good life, so the church, etc doesnt apply to them, but it does to us because we have the knowledge of it ill respond to the rest later
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
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