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Atheist/Religious Death Toll Comparisons Are Irrelevant?
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| Watcher |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 6:51 PM | Message # 106 |
Watchers
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OK, let's try to conjure up a scenario in which you might see the possibility of a parent killing a child being understandable, if not condonable. Ever hear of "The Bad Seed", or similar (fictional) stories? What if you were the father of Jeffrey Dahmer, or an equivalent, and knew that your child would continue, unless stopped? Would you find it easier to leave justice to the state, or might you take matters into your own hands? Now, imagine, beyond just the reality of the harm caused to victims, to how the stigma would affect you and your community. Would the time setting have any bearing on that? You can extrapolate all this to suit any potential offenses enumerated in scripture serious enough to justify such punishment. Is this still completely beyond your imagination?
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 6:55 PM | Message # 107 |
OGs
Posts: 2772
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Quote (Menace) You support these churches because they are in the original one but the protestants were part of the Catholic Church and they broke of out some time ago so by the logic of this article every church that traces her roots to the original church is LEGITIMATE .
im saying if these sees were the original church founded by the Apostles, then we should stick with them, and not to any of the new religious movements Added (22/Nov/09, 6:55 Pm)
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Quote (eboyd) both. them for claiming that to be the truth and you for following them. and even if it was just them, why would you follow an extremist church?
what kind of religion doesnt claim to be true?!?!? is any religious person an extremist to you? Quote (eboyd) ???? no Christian wants to be a heretic. if Christianity is true, and your article is true, then that means everyone in the US is of the devil! why would God allow that????
nobody wants to be a heretic...and again, im not saying they are not saved or 'the devil'....all im saying is that they are deficient if the faith, but nobody's perfect. only God can judge
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
Message edited by sodr2 - Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 6:56 PM
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| eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 7:06 PM | Message # 108 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (Watcher) OK, let's try to conjure up a scenario in which you might see the possibility of a parent killing a child being understandable, if not condonable. Ever hear of "The Bad Seed", or similar (fictional) stories? What if you were the father of Jeffrey Dahmer, or an equivalent, and knew that your child would continue, unless stopped? Would you find it easier to leave justice to the state, or might you take matters into your own hands? i was 100% certain you would bring this up. first of all, i do not condone any form of death penalty, but since so many of our contemporaries do, i'll leave that argument out as irrelevant. instead... Quote (eboyd) Whoever curses father or mother shall die does that in any way sound like Jesus was specifically referring to mass murdering children??? it doesn't even imply an eye for an eye mentality which would at least be more justified than what the actual quote says. this is more comparable to chopping off someones hand for stealing. what does curse mean? it can mean many things, but not likely murder. let's go to our handy dandy etymology dictionary for a quick idea of this: from etymonline.com: "curse Look up curse at Dictionary.com
O.E. curs "a prayer that evil or harm befall one," of uncertain origin, perhaps O.Fr. curuz "anger," or L. cursus "course." Connection with cross is unlikely. No similar word exists in Gmc., Romance, or Celtic. Meaning "to swear profanely" is from c.1230. Curses as a histrionic exclamation is from 1885. The curse "menstruation" is from 1930." in other words, as we look further into history, curse actually had a milder definition, not a stronger one that implied murder or worse. so at best, Jesus' commandment to kill children who curse their parents was directed towards such children as you described, but not limited to them.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| Menace |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 7:10 PM | Message # 109 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (sodr2) im saying if these sees were the original church founded by the Apostles, then we should stick with them, and not to any of the new religious movements it doesn't matter by the LOGIC of that article the protestant churches are not heretic at all
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| eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 7:13 PM | Message # 110 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (sodr2) what kind of religion doesnt claim to be true?!?!? is any religious person an extremist to you? you misread my post. read it again. Quote (sodr2) nobody wants to be a heretic...and again, im not saying they are not saved or 'the devil'....all im saying is that they are deficient if the faith, but nobody's perfect. only God can judge but you linked me an article that you claimed to agree with and your viewpoint is now differing from that article. are you saying that you now disagree with that article, or maybe that you disagree with a part of it? wouldn't that be equivalent to going against your church? wouldn't that make you, in your own beliefs, a heretic, or at least someone who disagrees with the church (which, according to the original churches that you claim to follow, is considered heresy)? isn't willful heresy worse than heresy when you aren't trying to be a heretic?
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| Watcher |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 7:27 PM | Message # 111 |
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Watchers
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[quote=eboyd]first of all, i do not condone any form of death penalty, but since so many of our contemporaries do, i'll leave that argument out as irrelevant. [/quote] Absence of an argument does not prove any point.
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| eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 7:32 PM | Message # 112 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (Watcher) Absence of an argument does not prove any point. then read on in my comment. that was simply me being honest and giving you my personal opinion and then telling you that in my following argument i will not allow that opinion to show as bias.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 8:39 PM | Message # 113 |
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OGs
Posts: 2772
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Quote (eboyd) but you linked me an article that you claimed to agree with and your viewpoint is now differing from that article.
that article was just showing how the 5 sees were the original churches founded by the apostles... i believe in no salvation outside of the sacramental life of the church, but that doesnt mean i have God's authority to judge an individual's salvation or say so and so is the devil... all i can do is generalize Quote (eboyd) you misread my post. read it again.
i think i did...its the allnighter i pulled ok..start over... the catholic/orthodox churches are extremists because _____...?
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
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| eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 9:00 PM | Message # 114 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (sodr2) that article was just showing how the 5 sees were the original churches founded by the apostles... i believe in no salvation outside of the sacramental life of the church, but that doesnt mean i have God's authority to judge an individual's salvation or say so and so is the devil... all i can do is generalize heresy doesn't imply that person is the devil, but you already know that. Quote (sodr2) i think i did...its the allnighter i pulled it's ok Quote (sodr2) ok..start over... the catholic/orthodox churches are extremists because _____...? that's the question i was expecting (and a better question). i said that according to the article you sent those churches say that all other forms of Christianity are heresy. if this is true, these churches would be labeled extremists in the US. besides, the Catholic church/Orthodoxy are pretty well hated over here already and considered fringe or extreme.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 9:13 PM | Message # 115 |
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OGs
Posts: 2772
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Quote (eboyd) that's the question i was expecting (and a better question). i said that according to the article you sent those churches say that all other forms of Christianity are heresy. if this is true, these churches would be labeled extremists in the US. besides, the Catholic church/Orthodoxy are pretty well hated over here already and considered fringe or extreme.
but if its true, who cares if theyre extremists...you can hate something, it doesnt make it any less 'true' btw, im sure there are branches in protestantism that claim the catholic/orthodox churches are heretics as well
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
Message edited by sodr2 - Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 9:17 PM
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| eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 9:19 PM | Message # 116 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (sodr2) but if its true, who cares if theyre extremists...you can hate something, it doesnt make it any less 'true' okay, but what is true about it? Quote (sodr2) btw, there are many branches in protestantism that claim the catholic/orthodox churches are heretics as well yes, that was what i was referring to. most atheists, for example, aren't going to call a Catholic an extremist just for being Catholic.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 9:27 PM | Message # 117 |
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OGs
Posts: 2772
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Quote (eboyd) okay, but what is true about it?
what?
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
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| eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 9:56 PM | Message # 118 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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what is true about it? what makes YOUR Christianity right and Protestantism/Baptism/etc. wrong?
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| I_Guy |
Date: Monday, 23/Nov/09, 0:35 AM | Message # 119 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (Watcher) OK, let's try to conjure up a scenario in which you might see the possibility of a parent killing a child being understandable, if not condonable. Ever hear of "The Bad Seed", or similar (fictional) stories? What if you were the father of Jeffrey Dahmer, or an equivalent, and knew that your child would continue, unless stopped? Would you find it easier to leave justice to the state, or might you take matters into your own hands? Now, imagine, beyond just the reality of the harm caused to victims, to how the stigma would affect you and your community. Would the time setting have any bearing on that? You can extrapolate all this to suit any potential offenses enumerated in scripture serious enough to justify such punishment. Is this still completely beyond your imagination?
Extreme case does not equal case closed.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Monday, 23/Nov/09, 10:02 AM | Message # 120 |
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OGs
Posts: 2772
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Quote (eboyd) what is true about it? what makes YOUR Christianity right and Protestantism/Baptism/etc. wrong?
im willing to accept that some orthodox teachings may be wrong in favor of catholicism..... anyways, "my" Christianity dates back to the apostolic age, the sacraments, the church, etc, founded by the apostles, not Martin Luther who decided to reject the traditions of the church that have been around for so long... the earliest and strictest teaching about the necessity of the sacraments come straight from Jesus' mouth: "Most assuredly, I say to you, UNLESS you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you." neither did Jesus or any of His disciples, or any of their disciples teach that this excludes those who sincerely try to live the truth as far as they know it, despite how far from that truth they may be tell me what you think about this as opposed to this or this or this or this
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
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