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Forum » Knowledge » Religious/Philosophical Debate » Atheist/Religious Death Toll Comparisons Are Irrelevant?
Atheist/Religious Death Toll Comparisons Are Irrelevant?
Adam Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 10:01 PM | Message # 76

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Yup. The only thing you won't tolerate is when men turn down your "offer" because they don't swing that way

I beg to differ. No man has ever turned down the "offer." Specially when the offerer is a member of N Sync ;)






I JUST EXPLODED INTO RAINBOWS AND LOLLIPOPS!
eboyd Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 10:54 PM | Message # 77

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LMFAO! rofl

I look black compare to the rest of them :D


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Adam Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 11:09 PM | Message # 78

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I know, its looks like I got the gradient black tool and washed your face with it. But its your picture if you look at it it has horrible lighting on the forehead and neck :p




I JUST EXPLODED INTO RAINBOWS AND LOLLIPOPS!
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 28/Oct/09, 1:04 AM | Message # 79

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No, I already know that :D

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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 28/Oct/09, 3:10 PM | Message # 80

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So I encounter a problem with my arguments in this one.

I'm surprised that no one has brought up Hitler and the Nazi's interpretation of Darwinian Evolution, or rather "Social Darwinism." They interpreted what he had discovered to their own ill purposes. I can't help but see the parallels with religion here. However no where in Darwin's theory did he explicitly demand foul action.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
I_Guy Date: Thursday, 29/Oct/09, 2:51 PM | Message # 81

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3(_)^^P

We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
Watcher Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 4:00 PM | Message # 82

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[quote=eboyd]In other words, the person should take 100% of the punitive and judicial responsibility, while the ideology he was operating under while committing the atrocity should face public scrutiny for that person's actions because it specifically commanded that person to commit said act. [/quote]

The assumption that the religion "specifically commanded that person to commit said act" is an extreme action based on your own presumption of guilt (of religion).

This specific atrocity may have been supported by this individual man's wish that he was supported by the word of God, but that doesn't make it so. There is at least one clear instruction in the bible which categorically states that murder is a no-no. There are a few other subtle hints which imply that God will provide justice, in his own time and way. God doesn't need or ask for anyone's help with meting out vengeance for His glory. Any claim made by a criminal that his crime was committed on behalf of God, and with the instructions and blessings of God, is just false. Cherry-picking scripture which may appear to justify these crimes is wishful thinking, at best, and more likely a conscious, cynical effort to elude justice.

Menace Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 4:05 PM | Message # 83

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The assumption that the religion "specifically commanded that person to commit said act" is an extreme action based on your own presumption of guilt (of religion).

most holy books are interpretable they are not absolute most holy books can be interpreted one way or another the interpretation falls on the individual and this individual is interprets it according to his education , social and political circumstances , geographical and geopolitical stance etc.


eboyd Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 5:14 PM | Message # 84

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Cherry-picking scripture which may appear to justify these crimes is wishful thinking, at best, and more likely a conscious, cynical effort to elude justice.

that is exactly what good Christians do actually. there are specific instructions in Deuteronomy and other passages to, by your own hand, stone to death or in some other way, murder blasphemers, homosexuals, children that disobey their parents, etc. anyone, according to the bible, who denies the Christian God as their Lord and Savior is a blasphemer. granted, there are conflicting passages found throughout the bible, especially those conflicting with these passages, however, that does not go to contradict these laws, but rather shows the conflicting teachings inherent in the bible due, in part, to it's multiple authors. several passages in which Jesus specifically states that the OT laws still stand (ie “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) and "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)) show that it is not the mainstream components that are truly following the bible, but rather the fringe components, such as Arthur Shelton (who, following the orders of Leviticus 24:16 (And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.), murdered his own friend and roommate), Ashley Appoo (following the same law, murdered the husband and severely wounded the wife of a Good Samaritan couple that gave him shelter and fed him for 2 days), and the Westboro Baptist Church (needs no introduction) that are following the bible most closely. their mainstream counterparts are, in fact, guilty of the cherry-picking that you accuse these fringe components of, not these components themselves. the same goes for Islam and Judaism actually has less of an excuse than Christianity does because they do not have the New Testament to hide under for shelter. all they have is ten commandments with contradictory instructions outside of them that command, directly from God, to murder certain people for religious reasons and they do not have a Jesus figure that is there partially to supposedly free us from such laws (even though he doesn't as shown in the bible quotes i have presented above).


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Watcher Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 5:17 PM | Message # 85

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[quote=Menace]most holy books are interpretable they are not absolute most holy books can be interpreted one way or another the interpretation falls on the individual and this individual is interprets it according to his education , social and political circumstances , geographical and geopolitical stance etc. [/quote]

Following this logic, then nothing is absolute, and is interpretable as the reader chooses. Therefor, I will choose to interpret your commentary as being in 100% agreement with my position.

Now, back to reality. Do written statements like "You shall not commit murder" seem to leave much room for interpretive confusion?

eboyd Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 5:21 PM | Message # 86

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Following this logic, then nothing is absolute, and is interpretable as the reader chooses. Therefor, I will choose to interpret your commentary as being in 100% agreement with my position.

here we go with the "if this, then that" fallacious logic that i hear so often. let me allow you to learn about the slippery slope fallacy and we can move on from this specific argument because your point is pointless.

Quote (Watcher)
Now, back to reality. Do written statements like "You shall not commit murder" seem to leave much room for interpretive confusion?

no, but their contradictions, as i pointed out above, sure as hell do.


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Menace Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 5:44 PM | Message # 87

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Following this logic, then nothing is absolute, and is interpretable as the reader chooses. Therefor, I will choose to interpret your commentary as being in 100% agreement with my position.

Now, back to reality. Do written statements like "You shall not commit murder" seem to leave much room for interpretive confusion?

there are TONS of passages in all holy books that can be interpreted wrongly and can be seen as inciting violence these passages for example can be taken out of context and used by fundamentalists to incite violence . It depends on the person if he ignores some bits of the bible or not . For example fundamentalists take the bible literally they believe the earth is thousands of years old while others don't and take what they convey and suits whit their social and SOCIETAL circumstance .

1 Samuel, chapter 15, verse 3: "Go now and put Amalek to the sword, putting to the curse all they have, without mercy: put to death every man and woman, every child and baby at the breast, every ox and sheep, camel and ***."

God orders the destruction of an entire city, including children and even breastfeeding babies.

Hosea, chapter 13, verse 16 (chapter 14, verse 1 in some translations): "Samaria will be made waste, for she has gone against her God: they will be cut down by the sword, their little children will be broken on the rocks, their women who are with child will be cut open."

Numbers, chapter 31, verses 17-18: "So now put every male child to death, and every woman who has had sex relations with a man. But all the female children who have had no sex relations with men, you may keep for yourselves."

Isiah chapter 13, verse 16: "Their young children will be broken up before their eyes; their goods will be taken away, and their wives made the property of others."


Menace Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 5:46 PM | Message # 88

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The bible is not absolute if it was we would still be stoning people the bible evolves as society evolves and adapts whit the current ethics and morals of that particular time. Absolutism of any kind is dangerous and deadly take Islamic Fundamentalism for example or Christian Fundamentalism these people are the products of absolutism

s0dr2 Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 6:07 PM | Message # 89

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several passages in which Jesus specifically states that the OT laws still stand (ie “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) and "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB))

but this is your own interpretation, not the church`s

Added (22/Nov/09, 6:07 Pm)
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Quote (eboyd)
no, but their contradictions, as i pointed out above, sure as hell do.

the church exists for a reason.. outside of it, you can interpret scripture however you want


"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

eboyd Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 6:08 PM | Message # 90

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but this is your own interpretation, not the church`s

those are DIRECTLY FROM THE BIBLE! how is quotation equivalent to interpretation???????? huh


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

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