Some folks don't need justification.

Are people incapable of acting without religious justification?

Remove religion from the equation and some group or other would find another tale to spin.

Depends on the pitch and remuneration.Work to end the lobby system, the money is pennies in relation to AIPAC and they own everyone.

Did you edit your message? i didn't get all of it first time.

Added (23/Oct/09, 7:29 Pm)
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What need would God have to send a Prophet if he had presented himself to humanity to propagate his message in person.

Did God forget something?

besides, how do you suppose he `presents`himself to humanity for thousands of people for thousands of years? thats pointless anyways. sending a prophet accomplishes preaching His message, theres no problems with that, other than your complaint of wanting God to hold you by the hand and pleasing you however you wish

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

What need would God have to send a Prophet if he had presented himself to humanity to propagate his message in person.

In the tradition of prophets preceeding the birth of Jesus there was roughly one or two prophets per generation.
What i had stated above, though you didn't grasp it, was as Jesus was on the earth and your belief is he was God as he was amongst people at that time, in the flesh, to dispense his message to, personally, what did he forget to tell every one that had to be amended by a discussion between Peter and Paul.

Is God fallible?

Your explaination of your notion of God seems to accomodate that possibility.

Granted in the tradition (which Jesus saught to uphold) in lack of Gods immediacy prophets are sent to maintain his word within the living memory. However if Jesus was God, his message was presented personally and within the context of Paul and Peters discussion that personal message was still within living memory.

So you are saying that God had an afterthought and passed it on later?

God forgot, not only that, he changed his mind?

????????Where was that stated by me, implicit or explicitly?

Anyways, here are a few ways I would come to believe:

1. If God presented me IRREFUTABLE evidence that he/she/it exists.

2. If an exorcism was performed on me and I lost my ability to control myself and the devil/a demon started speaking through me.

3. If a voice came into my head that said something super specific that predicted something that no person could possibly guess like "on November 5th at 9:53AM Michael Jordan is going to be murdered by Magic Johnson. Johnson is going to chop his head off with a machete" and on the news when that day comes it says "at 9:53 today, Magic Johnson chopped Michael Jordan's head off with a machete".

4. If a Christian wishes something specific upon me, like that I will die of a heart attack right then and there for being a nonbeliever, and I instantly begin going into cardiac arrest or if I was permanently bound to a wheelchair and a Christian wished that I can walk again and I instantly am able to stand.

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erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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ok, now what do you think about this:

if any god that demanded worship did exist, he would obviously make his existence clear to us... so then, why do you think he would give us clues and evidence for us to work and struggle with to come to the conclusion that he exist? he would rather straight forwardly reveal himself to us, and this is the case of Christianity: God has revealed himself to Moses and the prophets throughout the centuries, and revealed himself again through Jesus Christ.

the Bible says: "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

that tells me that extraordinary miracles like youve listed in order to believe is not the way of God.... so id look into the Bible and read it again... btw i know people who have converted by books other than the Bible like "mere Christanity" by cs. lewis or Thomas Aquinas' arguments for God, so id look into those things as well

Anyways, sodr, I will definitely look into those books when I have time, however, I've already heard many logical refutations of them and everyone that has responded to these refutations have come with logical fallacies, most often circular logic (ie: "God exists and that's why I have faith... (Later in the convo) having faith proves God exists" -- the circular arguments are usually more complex than that though).

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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That's terrible! You need to complain! Or do you go to a religious school? If you do then you are fucked. But seriously dude, evolution is a fact and I believe it is legally required to be taught at public schools in most states. Where do you live?

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0