ill respond to erik a little later

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

How about you respond with your own words and logic, instead of using that which we are arguing as discredible.

You don't get it. You initially brought up pharmaceuticals. He was going with your analogy. Someone who has spent a lifetime gaining knowledge to learn everything there is to know about pharmaceuticals would, in fact, know more than anyone who hasn't studied about pharmaceuticals would about pharmaceuticals. It has nothing to do with God.

How about instead of assuming that he does exist let's assume what the reality is: WE DON'T KNOW.

In the case that we don't know, someone who has spent a lifetime learning the most complex mathematics possible to be able to calculate to a very low margin of error how things work in the cosmos and has made it their lifetime goal to unveil the mysteries of the universe (because that is exactly what they are. The answer "God did it" doesn't make it any less of a mystery because that is simply an unproven hypothesis with no evidence backing it), yes, they know more than you or the average person in that field, and it is pompous and ignorant to just brush off their work and act like you have a firmer understanding than they do because you read it in some holy book. That's like claiming that you know more about world history than the world's most renowned archaeologists and history professors because you read about it on wikipedia and that their grasp on history is less firm than yours because of it. How would you feel if you spent your entire life learning something based on facts and made it your life's work to reveal those facts to the world and some group of pompous assholes were going around calling you a liar and a fraud because they had an ancient book, which, by your calculations, made a plethora of mistakes in their calculations, that told them otherwise?

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

clarify " by your calculations, made a plethora of mistakes in their calculations, that told them otherwise?" for me... i dont see the analogy

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

-it is scientifically impossible for humans to have lived for 900 years which the bible claims and then shows lives beginning to As a matter of fact, on the contrary, with the advent of modern medicine, people are living longer and longer lives every generation, because of science.

-the bible's mention of the four corners of the earth suggests a flat earth hypothesis (even though this is contradicted with the mention of the earth as a circle, though that does not negate a flat earth as a circle is a 2-dimensional object) which we know today that anyone who believes this is batshit crazy.

-God claims to have created the earth (and I would presume the universe) in 6 days and rested on the seventh. The claim is that in this time, the earth was created along with all the water, land, animals, and finally, humans. In other words, all animals, including those that are now extinct, were simultaneously placed on earth, and the next day the humans, Adam and Eve, were created. This means that all the carbon dating and other types of dating that have been done that have confirmed that humans and dinosaurs never lived together and that the last dinosaur died out a few million years before the first hominid was born, are negated if you believe in the bible and hold every word to be true.

-the bible claims that Adam and Eve were the first, and only, humans created initially and that all of humanity has a bloodline that links directly to them. Then, after their only two children, Cain and Abel, get in a dispute and Abel is killed by Cain, Cain is told to leave from where he is, that he is now banished, and he is to walk among the societies outside of that of he and his parents. So wait a minute, where did this society come from? Was Eve getting her freak on every day? Was pregnancy much quicker of a process back then? Was there incest going on? Was God just ONE creator? Maybe there was another creator that created other societies. Maybe it was Allah. Maybe all of the Gods exist but they simply created other societies outside of the society of Adam and Eve and that's why they aren't the chosen people by God, but rather they are the chosen people of another God. Maybe God created these other Gods and is therefore the absolute God. I think not.

-the bible claims that for 40 days and 40 nights a flood covered the entire earth in water while Noah lived safely in an arc with two of every existing animal species and his family and the rest of society was killed. Science has yet to find a shred of evidence (unless you count the likely counterfeited evidence presented by Christian scientists with questionable merits and a bias for the Christian worldview as reliable) to support this claim and has actually, in fact, found a logical reason to support it being a myth. A few years ago, while exploring the Black Sea, scientists made an incredible discovery several miles into the sea. At the sea floor they found what looked to have, at some point in the past, been a shore. By the diameter of the shore they found (it went all the way around apparently), they were able to conclude that sometime in the past the Black Sea was actually just a lake and over night it was flooded by water that likely came from polar ice caps melting or some other naturally explained source that led to what we now know as the Black Sea. They were able to date this event back to 10,000 years ago and they found that stories had been carried on through oral tradition and later written down that spoke of a similar event and these stories came from villages that would have witnessed the event because they were within a few miles radius of the Black Sea. These stories emigrated outward to different countries where the bible was alleged to have been originally written and it "evolved" over time into the story of Noah. This event was probably comparable in size to the recent tsunami a few years back that wiped out a larger portion of the Asian coastline, but was hardly a global event that wiped out the world population.

And there are many more but I do not have the time or will power to continue my list at this point.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

but what about this: lets say God created Adam in his early 20s.... so scientifically, he would be 20 years old, but in God's eyes, he would be one second year old...

though i didnt finish reading your reply, could this solve the problem of lets say a 6000 year old earth? scientifically it could be millions, but in God's eyes it could be shorter...

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

not true.

it doesn't say he went to another society, it says he went away east to the land of Nod and started his own family or society

you have to remember that the bible is written from a mans perspective, not everything in the bible was dictated by God himself word for word while God watched the people write it down.

it's a Hebrew tale simple as that other civilizations existed they weren't alone we all know that its basic history it's a morale story for Ancient Hebrews the bible , Torah and every holy book must be treated as the philosophical teachings of the Ancient Hebrews THAT'S IT even tough the historicity of Jesus does not exist he was a Jew too everything regarding the Abrahamic religions is just Ancient Hebrew philosophy retold by various other ethnic groups and civilizations people must stop acting like the bible is the word of GOD no is not ancient Greek philosophy had better values and morales some of them are the pillars of our modern day society so what we must do now pray to Ancient Greek philosophers ? oh come on Emseed i know you believe in God but your too rational to fall for this

your simply not fit to debate this at least go study some Christian Apologetics cause you making a fool out yourself God has hyper vision hilarious

And then you have phony intellectuals who have realized how hard it is to become recognized as a credible intellectual and get something like a PHD. So you get frauds like Kent Hovind who has to pretend that he is an intellectual. So people go around calling him "Dr. Hovind" because he claims he has his Phd. Why does he do this? -Well he realizes how much hard work it actually is and he isn't prepared to put in the work. It is just too hard for him. Luckily frauds like this get called out, charged with fraud, and spend time in prison for trying to deliberately mislead the masses and endanger the intellectual future of mankind.

So, to more directly address your statement. I did not say that a scientist would understand god more than the average Joe. I said that the simple average Joe is not qualified to question scientists unless he studies science himself, and adequately understands it. You do realize the bible is not difficult to comprehend, right? You do realize that science IS difficult to comprehend, right?

Doesn't this highlight the problem? The majority of people believe in the bible because it is EASY to comprehend. BUT, the majority of people are not thoroughly educated, or even meagerly educated, so it is obvious why they go for the bible and not science. Don't you understand? It is difficult to become intelligent. It is hard work and requires a strong unpolluted mind. Many people do not have time or the will power to cultivate their mind. So they let their pastor and bible think for them. How is this shit not obvious????

This all touches on a modern topic. There is a book out this year called "Idiot America" which outlines how America has some how experienced a phenomenon in which the fools and charlatans have some how taken control. Some how credibility has been lost in this age of information and technology. It's a good read and it really makes you realize how completely discredible people have taken over. How America has gone down hill after the 1950s.

oh really?

"In 1650, Archbishop Ussher published the Ussher chronology, a chronology dating the creation to the night preceding October 23 4004 BC. Ussher's proposed date of 4004 BC differed little from other Biblically-based estimates, such as those of Bede (3952 BC), Ussher's near-contemporary, Scaliger (3949 BC), Johannes Kepler (3992 BC), Sir Isaac Newton (c. 4000 BC), or John Lightfoot (3929 BC)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism#Origins

these were theologians with no bias towards science and, in fact, many of them, upon hitting a roadblock in their scientific knowledge, inserted the Christian God. all of these calculations equate to approximately 6,000 years ago.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0