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Evidence For God?
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| eboyd |
Date: Monday, 26/Oct/09, 7:38 PM | Message # 46 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (sodr2) this isnt my 'official reply' ill get back to this b/c it seems like ill be getting 4 hours of sleep
but what about this: lets say God created Adam in his early 20s.... so scientifically, he would be 20 years old, but in God's eyes, he would be one second year old...
though i didnt finish reading your reply, could this solve the problem of lets say a 6000 year old earth? scientifically it could be millions, but in God's eyes it could be shorter... so you are saying that God created the universe 6000 years ago to make it look like it is 1.9 billion years old? i've heard this before. this is the refutation. that still doesn't account for evidence we have the shows that humans and dinosaurs couldn't have lived together. if the world is only 6000 years old, dinosaurs and humans would have had to have coexisted because we have evidence of human societies that are older than 6000 years old and if the world is only that old, even if it appears older, dinosaurs and humans still would have had to have lived together and interacted.
my new theme song
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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
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| I_Guy |
Date: Monday, 26/Oct/09, 7:40 PM | Message # 47 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
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"We're taking the dinosaurs back from the scientists!" -some idiot at a creation museum.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| eboyd |
Date: Monday, 26/Oct/09, 7:44 PM | Message # 48 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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lol!
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
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| EmSeeD |
Date: Monday, 26/Oct/09, 8:04 PM | Message # 49 |
Heads
Posts: 11464
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Quote (eboyd) oh really? "In 1650, Archbishop Ussher published the Ussher chronology, a chronology dating the creation to the night preceding October 23 4004 BC. Ussher's proposed date of 4004 BC differed little from other Biblically-based estimates, such as those of Bede (3952 BC), Ussher's near-contemporary, Scaliger (3949 BC), Johannes Kepler (3992 BC), Sir Isaac Newton (c. 4000 BC), or John Lightfoot (3929 BC)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism#Origins these were theologians with no bias towards science and, in fact, many of them, upon hitting a roadblock in their scientific knowledge, inserted the Christian God. all of these calculations equate to approximately 6,000 years ago.
the bible doesn't give a full chronology though, sometimes when it says this guy was a son of that guy they mean decendant so there could have been centuries between them, but other people might interpret it as he was literally his son. i'm not sure how exactly they came up with the dates but i think its a bit stupid how that person thinks he can nail it down to the very month and day.
http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
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| eboyd |
Date: Monday, 26/Oct/09, 8:08 PM | Message # 50 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (EmSeeD) the bible doesn't give a full chronology though, sometimes when it says this guy was a son of that guy they mean decendant so there could have been centuries between them, but other people might interpret it as he was literally his son. i'm not sure how exactly they came up with the dates but i think its a bit stupid how that person thinks he can nail it down to the very month and day. the point is that there are factual inaccuracies all throughout the bible. hell, the bible itself has been subject to some serious forgery, deletion and mistranslation: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_bibl.htm
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| EmSeeD |
Date: Monday, 26/Oct/09, 8:52 PM | Message # 51 |
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Heads
Posts: 11464
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yeah some people were careless too, there was one translation that said Job (or someone else) had to go to the back of the cave to go to the bathroom or something lol. that page was actually quite interesting though, i'd always wondered why the catholic schools i went to never said the "for the kingdom, the power and the glory are yours now and forever" in The Lords Prayer", but the Methodist Church i went to did. but they do say it now.
http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
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| eboyd |
Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 1:35 AM | Message # 52 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Yeah, it's quite crazy (and scary) how permissible such things as forgeries were back then. And what is also interesting is how the older the bible the more variation and diversion from the original story you see, partly because of convenient interpretation or forgery. The oldest bible known to man is the codex sinaiticus (4th century CE) which tells a very different story from the bibles of today. Possibly the most important difference is the codex's lack of mention of homosexuality. The original bible did not take a stand on the issue. It is no wonder most christian denominations of today condemn the codex books even though science shows that they are a more pure form of their holy book because they draw closer to the roots of the religion itself. In closing I'll leave you with something light. Here is, easily, my favorite bible quote of all time. This translation is from the KJV: "Behold, I will corrupt your seed and spread dung upon your faces" Malachi 2:3 
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 11:54 AM | Message # 53 |
OGs
Posts: 2772
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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
Message edited by sodr2 - Wednesday, 28/Oct/09, 9:22 AM
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| eboyd |
Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 12:43 PM | Message # 54 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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To add to that, for your sake, it is rumored that the entire Pentateuch was actually forged (unknown writer(s) wrote them and claimed them to have been written by the prophets that we think actually wrote them) and Genesis is included in this. So for this reason it is quite possible that this was just human speculation and that someone/some group of people actually wrote the Pentateuch with an agenda of some sort. It is likely that early bibles didn't even contain the Pentateuch. But the question remains that even if the fallacies that nonbelievers deride within the bible were simply the additions of humanity trying to make their agenda a part of the bible, if God really wanted people to believe and loved all people, why wouldn't he reveal even one thing in the bible that was unknown at the time and would be unknowable for centuries or even millennia to prove that he, in fact, does exist? Why didn't he reveal DNA and how it works in detail? Why didn't he reveal the big bang in full detail (as in not the vague way that the Koran talks about everything coming into existence from an explosion of sorts)? Finally, there is Epicurus' "proof" of the nonexistence of God AKA the problem of evil. Search that in Google (look up the one with reference to Epicurus) and address that in your response. And btw, I dare you to present the pope with the idea that Genesis isn't true.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| I_Guy |
Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 4:27 PM | Message # 55 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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All we ever get from you Sodr is someone else's words that you simply regurgitate and connect together. Don't you have anything compelling to say out of your own mind?
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 5:20 PM | Message # 56 |
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OGs
Posts: 2772
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Quote (I_Guy) All we ever get from you Sodr is someone else's words that you simply regurgitate and connect together. Don't you have anything compelling to say out of your own mind?
youre right, but if im defending the church, ill obv be telling you their position on things Quote (eboyd) it is rumored that the entire Pentateuch was actually forged
lol, how is that for my sake? Quote (eboyd) Why didn't he reveal DNA and how it works in detail? Why didn't he reveal the big bang in full detail (as in not the vague way that the Koran talks about everything coming into existence from an explosion of sorts)?
well, like i said in the previous page, extraordinary miracles is not the way of God for someone to believe btw He did reveal unknown things ... but theologically speaking, not scientifically, like for example ignoring the poor is a direct offense against God Quote (eboyd) Finally, there is Epicurus' "proof" of the nonexistence of God AKA the problem of evil. Search that in Google (look up the one with reference to Epicurus) and address that in your response.
http://www.google.com/search?....e=UTF-8
first page that comes up deals with masturbation?
anyways, im pretty sure youre referring to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurean_paradox#Detailed_arguments indeed....... it is a problem, and frankly my dear, i dont know the exact reasons why a good and powerful god allows people to suffer, although i can think of some good benefits (not my response, but revealed by Jesus): 1) reminds us of the ultimate suffering to come when we die assuming we are unrepentant, 2) Jesus Himself suffered for our sake, so suffering has been transformed into a means of redemption...He also said take up your cross and follow Me, so a Christian suffering is basically... rewarding
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
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| eboyd |
Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 6:43 PM | Message # 57 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (sodr2) but if im defending the church, ill obv be telling you their position on things See, that's the problem. It's about your opinion on it, not the church's. What do YOU think? Your opinion may be vastly different from the church's. That is what I learned of myself. When I was young I didn't even know what the church or Christianity was all about. I remember being shocked and thinking how ridiculous it was when I found out that Jesus was supposed to be not only God's son, but the carnal embodiment of God. It took me until I was in my late teens/twenties (so less than 5 years ago, possibly only 2) to learn what faith really was and when I did I realized that I did not agree with the idea of having faith in something and being told to try to avoid the temptation of doubting because it is a bad thing and God wants me to have faith in him no matter how irrational it was. Now you have a much firmer grasp of the bible than I did, but anyone with a working brain is going to have opinions that are unique to them. Maybe you have some pretty unique beliefs when it comes to religion but you just don't know it yet because you haven't went out and sought for the truth for yourself. Sure, if the church shares your opinion, BRIEFLY address their writing, then share your opinion on it. Quote (sodr2) lol, how is that for my sake? You spoke of things in the bible that you don't regard as truth. You mentioned specifically Genesis. Genesis is part of the Pentateuch so that gives you a reason not to believe in it and give favor to more valid articles within the book. Quote (sodr2) 1) reminds us of the ultimate suffering to come when we die assuming we are unrepentant, But if we couldn't sin at all, there would be no need for hell and no bad thinks on earth would exist. Quote (sodr2) 2) Jesus Himself suffered for our sake, so suffering has been transformed into a means of redemption...He also said take up your cross and follow Me, so a Christian suffering is basically... rewarding God is everyone on Earth's father right? If that is true then think of this: If you were a father and had two grown sons who were self sustaining and one had the other at your house and was slowly torchering him, ripping his limbs off and such. Would you not step in, even if it was between your two adult sons, and tell the one doing the torchering "no" and stopped him from doing it? Well, I would. Why doesn't God do anything?
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| EmSeeD |
Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 6:53 PM | Message # 58 |
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Heads
Posts: 11464
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Quote (sodr2) indeed....... it is a problem, and frankly my dear, i dont know the exact reasons why a good and powerful god allows people to suffer, although i can think of some good benefits (not my response, but revealed by Jesus): 1) reminds us of the ultimate suffering to come when we die assuming we are unrepentant, 2) Jesus Himself suffered for our sake, so suffering has been transformed into a means of redemption...He also said take up your cross and follow Me, so a Christian suffering is basically... rewarding have you seen this as well? Quote (eboyd) it is rumored that the entire Pentateuch was actually forged (unknown writer(s) wrote them and claimed them to have been written by the prophets that we think actually wrote them) and Genesis is included in this. So for this reason it is quite possible that this was just human speculation and that someone/some group of people actually wrote the Pentateuch with an agenda of some sort. you can't believe every rumor you read about on the internet though
http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
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| eboyd |
Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 7:02 PM | Message # 59 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (EmSeeD) you can't believe every rumor you read about on the internet though i absolutely agree. i simply presented it as something that may be possible though.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| Menace |
Date: Tuesday, 27/Oct/09, 7:32 PM | Message # 60 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (eboyd) If you were a father and had two grown sons who were self sustaining and one had the other at your house and was slowly torchering him, ripping his limbs off and such. Would you not step in, even if it was between your two adult sons, and tell the one doing the torchering "no" and stopped him from doing it? Well, I would. Why doesn't God do anything? because he has a sadistic plan you know life won't be life whit out struggling or we must struggle so we can get into his kingdom and be rewarded and many more fucked up responses these people are morally fucked in my opinion God can create an Utopia for us but nah he loves being worshiped and praised woow what fucked up qualities this God has it's the biggest MORAL DILEMMA for any theist i call it Utopia versus Hiroshima isn't enough ?? we nuked each other isn't that enough ?? we done some unimaginable and unexplainable things as a species isn't that enough ?? enough pain ? now Sodr2 will come and tell me it's Gods awesome plan or who am i to put this question or it's because Adam and Even and the original sin that's why we are suffering i advice these people to visit Auschwitz if they are in Poland what sadistic God could allow that ?? what for him around 60 million people dead in WW2 is just nothing in his eyes ?? God lacks basic morality he is supreme he can undo everything why not leave the universe lifeless oh wait i forgot we are his puppets we entertain him
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