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Forum » Knowledge » Philosophy/Science » Purpose For Existence?
Purpose For Existence?
ritesofpasage Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 4:30 PM | Message # 91

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No I'm a



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Adam Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 4:31 PM | Message # 92

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LMFAO EIRK GOT OWNEDEDED not really




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Lord_Meth Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 9:13 PM | Message # 93

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I personally believe that the whole God thing is taken out of context. I dont believe that God is one entity or an entity at all. God is the universe, the universe is God. We are all pieces of God/Universe.

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Menace Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 9:45 PM | Message # 94

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Quote (Lord_Meth)
I personally believe that the whole God thing is taken out of context. I dont believe that God is one entity or an entity at all. God is the universe, the universe is God. We are all pieces of God/Universe.

Yeah that's called Pantheism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism . You are a pantheist , nananananna you suck nanananana :p :D


ilikebacon3000 Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 9:54 PM | Message # 95

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passage, about the sun being the perfect distance from earth..
how many stars are in the universe? how many giant rocks are floating through space? and how long have we been here?
put that together, and you have either a huge number that would take an endless amount of time to put together, or you could just be easy and say it's an infinite number of possibilities.

bluntly, it's pure luck. very very very few are habitable. it just so happens that ours is. luck, that's all it is. i don't see why there has to be a reason. it's as simple as "A" and "B".


Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
eboyd Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 10:03 PM | Message # 96

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Meth, this might interest you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantheism


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Lord_Meth Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 10:12 PM | Message # 97

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I hate Wikipedia, please summerize.

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Lord_Meth Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 10:45 PM | Message # 98

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After reading up on what a Panthesim is, I can see that I share alot of the same views.
I wouldn't jump right in and consider myself to be a full-fledged Pantheist tho. I find it silly to want to put a label on everything though. I actually hate it. People would live so much easier if they would just stop caring on what everybody is and just live life. But then again, ideas would not advance if it were not for opposing beliefs. It is what it is folk!


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eboyd Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 11:02 PM | Message # 99

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Pantheism is a religion that is based on the claim that God is the universe and everything in it. Most atheists have no problem with pantheism and Richard Dawkins (who became a de facto spokesperson for atheism a few years back) even called it "sexed up atheism".

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eboyd Date: Tuesday, 12/Apr/11, 11:07 PM | Message # 100

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Yeah, I feel you. A few years ago I was on the same "labels are ridiculous" thing but I started to realize how useful labels can be. Labels basically serve as a shortcut to explaining things. For example, instead of telling you that I believe in the maximization of freedom accompanied by an economic model based on workers' control over the means of production I can simply tell you that I am an anarchist and be done with it. However, the drawback is that many people misinterpret labels and so you need to explain it to them a bit further.

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ritesofpasage Date: Wednesday, 13/Apr/11, 6:08 AM | Message # 101

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Quote (eboyd)
i'll start by saying that, unlike most religious folk, i am not claiming to have all the answers or have an answer (God) that leads me to all the answers, whether or not i will ever understand them.

No one except God knows it all. You are making generalizations about religious people avoid that.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
...until you realize that God probably doesn't exist and so you just decide to live life to it's fullest without getting in the way of others doing the same

You made a point about living life to the fullest. Which is a subjective statement, your opinion Mr. I don't claim to have the answers.

Quote (eboyd)
when did i say/imply that we are empty entities? each complex life form is an unimaginably intricate web of DNA coding, molecular combinations, etc., which help determine how each being will develop in a given environment through specific experiences.

right here ===>

Quote (ritesofpasage)
beyond degrees of strength and intelligence, size, and specific physical and mental attributes, we're not. why should we be? what's so important about being different from the animals? is there some dire need for animals to be subordinate to humans beyond "the bible says so"?

Why haven't animals done what we have?

Quote (eboyd)
because they haven't evolved to do so.

They have been here longer than us doesn't that mean they should be the most evolved? hmm

Quote (eboyd)
it's actually more accurate to say that our planet is just the right distance from the Sun. i digress though. i'd say luck. is it not possible for things to just happen by chance? does everything have to be planned? why?

No everything does not have to be planned but in Science when you can rule out something being random like a null hypothesis then you have to accept the alternative hypothesis. And if the null hypothesis is our life was not planned. And if we have not found another planet with habitable life then we have to reject that idea that our life was not planned because there are multiple planets out there and from our knowledge none have life.

Quote (eboyd)
the development i described above. and who said our planet has never been destroyed??

Our planet the one we currently are talking through the internet on has not yet been destroyed. If it had then we would not be having this conversation. Even though there are many factors that could easily destroy the planet like say another planet hitting it at a fast enough speed.

Quote (eboyd)
1. claiming that everything was "created" presupposes your argument to be true. avoid that please.

Wouldn't you like that. For me to presuppose my argument was false. Everyone thinks their argument is true. Some of the stuff you say don't make no sense. You talk about was it real in a concept right. Well how could something that was not created be "real" to you.

Quote (eboyd)
none of the questions you pose lead to such reasoning.

You would not be open to the reasoning when it presented itself. Because you have a belief. Which is interesting because you rail against religion.

Quote (eboyd)
even if your reasoning was correct and there is a creator, what makes the Christian account superior to any other account?

and the most important question of them all: what the hell does any of this have to do with the purpose of existence??

Christianity is correct because when Christ died on the cross he was risen and seen and reported by over 500 people. 1 Corinthians 15:1. That is a historical fact.

If an impartial jury could have all the evidence presented to them, including an abundance of testimony from eyewitnesses, the members of the jury would be forced to conclude that Christ rose again from the dead. The facts of the case overwhelmingly support this conclusion

To the larger point the purpose of existence has to be found within God because he is the creator and until we ask him we could not know.


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Adam Date: Wednesday, 13/Apr/11, 7:22 AM | Message # 102

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Quote (ritesofpasage)
They have been here longer than us doesn't that mean they should be the most evolved? hmm

we are animals just as them bro... your putting science and religion together in an attempt to rebuttal erik LOL

Quote (ritesofpasage)
And if we have not found another planet with habitable life then we have to reject that idea that our life was not planned because there are multiple planets out there and from our knowledge none have life.

dude... there are plenty of planets that scientists have found that have the same climate zone as earth, just because their isn't visable life on it (i.e. mammals) doesn't mean there isn't life on a molecular level. and yeah there are molecular life outside of earth if you didn't know.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
Wouldn't you like that. For me to presuppose my argument was false. Everyone thinks their argument is true. Some of the stuff you say don't make no sense. You talk about was it real in a concept right. Well how could something that was not created be "real" to you.

what..?

Quote (ritesofpasage)
You would not be open to the reasoning when it presented itself. Because you have a belief. Which is interesting because you rail against religion.

objection your honor relevance?

Quote (ritesofpasage)
Christianity is correct because when Christ died on the cross he was risen and seen and reported by over 500 people. 1 Corinthians 15:1. That is a historical fact. If an impartial jury could have all the evidence presented to them, including an abundance of testimony from eyewitnesses, the members of the jury would be forced to conclude that Christ rose again from the dead. The facts of the case overwhelmingly support this conclusion To the larger point the purpose of existence has to be found within God because he is the creator and until we ask him we could not know.

/arguement... you just ended it yourself with that.





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eboyd Date: Wednesday, 13/Apr/11, 7:46 AM | Message # 103

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Quote (ritesofpasage)
No one except God knows it all. You are making generalizations about religious people avoid that.

Quote (eboyd)
i am not claiming to have all the answers or have an answer (God) that leads me to all the answers, whether or not i will ever understand them.

^^^ as in i'm not claiming that you believe you have all the answers. i am claiming that you believe either that you have all the answers or you pray to and are lead by someone/something that you claim does.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
You made a point about living life to the fullest. Which is a subjective statement, your opinion Mr. I don't claim to have the answers.

i'm taking an existentialist perspective on life; the idea that one should choose their own purpose. it's a "leave me the fuck alone and i'll leave you alone in return" kind of philosophy. i'm being completely subjective, of course. i'm telling you that i don't give a shit what you tell me your God says my purpose in life is, let me live my life and you can live yours however you want (including according to your God's will). if you have a problem with that, then i have a problem with you.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
right here ===>

where??????

Quote (ritesofpasage)
They have been here longer than us doesn't that mean they should be the most evolved? hmm

we are animals. some types of animals have been here longer than us and some have not been here as long as us. we have evolved ourselves from animals. that is a well supported scientific theory that is held generally by almost all biologists. the idea of something being "more evolved" is asinine. firstly, it is a widely held scientific opinion that all living beings share common ancestry, so to say that one being is "more evolved" than another is ridiculous because they are all from the same evolutionary root. secondly, different environments and circumstances lead to vastly disparate rates in a species' evolutionary process. thirdly, what does "most evolved" even mean. evolution doesn't necessarily entail improvements in intelligence or even always improvements. i was reading a while ago about a species that began dwelling in dark caves and over time the species began to lose its sight due to the fact that it did not put use to its eyes as it lived in dark spaces. lastly, while in terms of intelligence we are far superior to any other animal, as i stated before, many animals HAVE evolved far beyond us in terms of strength, sense perception, etc.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
No everything does not have to be planned but in Science when you can rule out something being random like a null hypothesis then you have to accept the alternative hypothesis. And if the null hypothesis is our life was not planned. And if we have not found another planet with habitable life then we have to reject that idea that our life was not planned because there are multiple planets out there and from our knowledge none have life.

this has nothing to do with the Sun. yes, we could say that the Sun and Earth aligning at the exact distance apart that they need to be was pre-determined by a set of causal events that lead up to that specific event, so it wasn't random, per se, but that doesn't pre-suppose that it was created, especially by a specific God.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
Our planet the one we currently are talking through the internet on has not yet been destroyed. If it had then we would not be having this conversation. Even though there are many factors that could easily destroy the planet like say another planet hitting it at a fast enough speed.

what constitutes "destruction" for you? was the comet that wiped out the dinosaurs and killed all life forms but certain insects not catastrophic enough to be considered full destruction of earth?

Quote (ritesofpasage)
Wouldn't you like that. For me to presuppose my argument was false. Everyone thinks their argument is true. Some of the stuff you say don't make no sense. You talk about was it real in a concept right. Well how could something that was not created be "real" to you.

no, i'm asking you not to presuppose that your argument is true. i don't do it, i'd appreciate you having the same respect.

as for something that wasn't created being "real" or not, it is very simple. neither of us can fathom what it would be like to watch some raw material be "created" because neither of us have even seen it occur. in the same vein, neither of us can fathom something that has always existence in one form or another. existence in itself does not presuppose a creator.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
You would not be open to the reasoning when it presented itself. Because you have a belief. Which is interesting because you rail against religion.

try me. sure, i may not agree with it, and i may be very critical, but i would absolutely be open to your reasoning if it made sense. and btw, i don't rail against religion, i simply oppose when religious folks claim that the only "right way" to do things is their belief system.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
Christianity is correct because when Christ died on the cross he was risen and seen and reported by over 500 people. 1 Corinthians 15:1. That is a historical fact.

quoting from the bible doesn't make something a historical fact. the truth is that, outside of the bible, no clear reference was made to Christ until almost 100 years after his death. this statement reveals a lot about you. it shows how closed minded you are as you apparently think that you are 100% certain of your beliefs.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
If an impartial jury could have all the evidence presented to them, including an abundance of testimony from eyewitnesses, the members of the jury would be forced to conclude that Christ rose again from the dead. The facts of the case overwhelmingly support this conclusion

impartial juries have convicted and sentenced well over 100 innocent men to death in the US alone. an impartial jury can judge the truth on their own accord all they want, it still doesn't make their judgment an impervious fact. and that is ignoring the fact that your analogy is completely different from the actual scenario you are discussing.

Quote (ritesofpasage)
To the larger point the purpose of existence has to be found within God because he is the creator and until we ask him we could not know.

this is your opinion, based on, in my opinion, a flawed observation of reality.

sorry if anything comes out sounding incoherent or hostile. i was exhausted when i wrote it lol.


my new theme song



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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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Menace Date: Wednesday, 13/Apr/11, 9:17 AM | Message # 104

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Quote (Adam)
/arguement... you just ended it yourself with that.

BANG :D

Quote (eboyd)
quoting from the bible doesn't make something a historical fact. the truth is that, outside of the bible, no clear reference was made to Christ until almost 100 years after his death. this statement reveals a lot about you. it shows how closed minded you are as you apparently think that you are 100% certain of your beliefs.

PREACH !! LOL :D Man i am having so much fun looking at this debate LOL :D On the real tho, i need to jump on this because history is my favorite thing. Erik is totally right here, even the Greco-Roman Pagan sources and Jewish sources that cite Jesus are 100 years later, the oldest source citing Jesus was written between 93 and 94 AD in the "Antiquities of the Jews" by Flavius Josephus, and even these sources are debatable because there seems to be many interpolations. Again even the bible is not an historical account because the bible was written later , the same as the secular historical accounts the bible was written between 125-150 AD. Its seems to be a 100 year old gap in everything. Even if all of these all bollocks the bible from an historical point of view is pretty much off point, for example there are many dates there that are off shot many historical figures that didn't live in the period the bible mentions and many other things. Sorry if i offended somebody but when it comes to history the truth needs to be told, i always valued history and i always wanted to present HISTORY not his story if you know what i mean. :D


ritesofpasage Date: Wednesday, 13/Apr/11, 9:36 PM | Message # 105

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The bible is the true word of God.

Take any line in it within the correct context and apply it to your life then see how infallible a tool it is.

Believers who read the bible believe because when you apply it, it works to do good point blank.

Added (13/Apr/11, 9:36 PM)
---------------------------------------------
When studying the science of the ancient world, one is more apt to be impressed with its ignorance than to admire its accuracy. However, the Bible offers a definite exception to this rule. The scriptures are replete with statements suggesting scientific knowledge which predates the corresponding discoveries of secular science. Given that Bible writers were not scientists, and given that the scientific information at their disposal was generally misleading, the accuracy of the Bible can only be attributed to the inspiration of God.

1) The Genesis account of creation asserts that all humans descended from the same parents, Adam and Eve. There is now considerable debate in the scientific community over recent genetic studies which indicate that all men have a common father and all women have a common mother. In fact, the latter claim is sometimes called the Eve hypothesis. Some scientists are skeptical about these studies, and even those who are supportive would not generally accept the Genesis account; however, Bible believers should expect further research to add yet more evidence supporting these hypotheses.

2) Genesis 10:25 speaks of one Peleg whose name means division. The text then explains that he was so named because in his days the earth was divided. It is now commonly believed that all continents of the earth were once combined into a single continent called Pangaea. This belief is based upon the fact that present continents appear somewhat as pieces out of a puzzle. There are also other evidences, including several geological similarities on matching continental edges.

3) The Bible asserts that the stars are innumerable (Gen 15:5, Gen 17:7, Heb 11:12). This does not necessarily mean that we are incapable of mathematically expressing their number. It means that no human has the ability to count them individually so as to achieve their sum. It is claimed that there are 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone. If stars were counted around the clock at one star per second, then it would take over 3000 years just to count these. Add to this the fact that there are as many as 100 billion galaxies. However, there were many scholars prior to Galileo who believed that the stars could be counted, and several attempts were made to do so. Many of these counts arrived at around 1000 stars.

4) There is reasonable evidence that the scriptures speak of dinosaurs. As should be expected, this evidence comes from Genesis, the book of origins, and from the book of Job, generally believed to be the oldest book in the Bible.

First, Gn 1:21 speaks of God creating whales on the fifth day of creation. The Hebrew word translated here as whales is generally translated dragons. It is translated as monsters once, whale(s) twice, serpent(s) thrice, and dragon(s) 21 times.

Second, Job's statements concerning the behemoth (Job 40:15-24) might be referring to dinosaurs. Its tail is compared to a cedar tree. Its strength, and apparently its bulk, is in its loins. It is said to be the chief of the ways of God, and is described as having the ability to drink up a river. No modern animal meets this description in all points.

Third, Job's description of the leviathin (Job 41) very much resembles a dinosaur. Some would dismiss this description as fictitious because the leviathin is described as breathing fire; however, some creation scientists believe this could have happened. The creature would merely need glands to produce a chemical which would combust when exposed to air. The bombardier beetle does in fact have this ability. The fact that nearly every major culture of the world has traditions about such dragons lends yet further credibility to the possibility of their existence in the past.

5) The fact that the earth is of spherical shape is generally considered to be recent knowledge. However, Isaiah 40:22 spoke of the circle of the earth approximately 750 years before Christ.

Other statements in the Bible also indicate that God revealed this truth long ago. For example, David said that God has removed our transgression from us as far as the east is from the west (Ps 103:12). On a spherical surface, east and west are infinitely separated in the sense that one can travel indefinitely in either direction without ever attaining the other. However, Solomon described the wind as blowing in circuits, first towards the south and then turning toward the north. North and south are not infinitely separated as east and west, because a southward traveler on a spherical surface will be heading north after crossing the south pole.

6) In possibly the oldest book of the Bible, Job asserted that God hung the earth on nothing (Job 26:7). The first scientist having this understanding would appear to be Copernicus around 1500.

7) The rotation of the earth was likely revealed in Job 38:12, where God asks of Job:

Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; that it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.

God asks Job if he has ever dictated the time of the morning or the location of the sunrise (dayspring). As soon as the sun is risen, its light will take hold of the ends of the earth in the sense that it touches all of the landscape, and the wicked are shaken out of it (the earth) in the sense that thieves, drunkards, adulterers, and others who practice their sins in darkness are forced to desist from these activities as they retreat from the light. Also, the beauties of the earth are revealed by the light, and its coloration is made to appear as that of a beautiful garment. Finally, the text asserts that God's command of the morning derives from His control of the earth, which is turned as clay to the seal. Hence, the suggestion is that God regulates the morning by rotating the earth as a potter rotates the clay. Yet ancient wisdom would have asserted that God regulated the morning by control of the Sun, and indeed, this is the perception of any uninformed mind.

8) Paul asserted in Acts 17:26 that God hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth. Until recent times, it was believed there was significant differences in the blood of various human races. We now know that all races of men are of common blood.

9) Psalms 8:4-8 likely reveal the existence of systematic ocean currents:

What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is commonly known as the father of oceanography. He was among the first to discover and chart systematic ocean currents. Maury claimed that his research was inspired by Ps 8:4-8.

10) Job 38:16 speaks of springs in the sea. It is now known that there are indeed such springs on the ocean floor.

11) The earliest literature indicating an understanding of hydrological cycle was apparently around the third or fourth century BC. However, the essential details of this cycle were all revealed in the Bible well before this time. This may be seen from the following texts:

The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits. All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again. - Eccl 1:6,7

For he maketh small the drops of water: they pour down rain according to the vapour thereof: which the clouds do drop and distil upon man abundantly. - Job 36:27,28

It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name. - Amos 9:6

12) It was not until this century that medical science had a full understanding of the fact that most diseases are caused by infection of microscopic organisms. Accordingly, the medical values of sterilization, sanitation, and quarantines were virtually unappreciated. Yet the Bible is so replete with such wisdom that time and space are not sufficient to cover them in paper such as this. Here are some examples:

This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days. And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean. And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days. - Num 19:14-16

Whatsoever shall touch the flesh thereof shall be holy: and when there is sprinkled of the blood thereof upon any garment, thou shalt wash that whereon it was sprinkled in the holy place. But the earthen vessel wherein it is sodden shall be broken: and if it be sodden in a brasen pot, it shall be both scoured, and rinsed in water. - Lev 6:27,28

And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean. All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be. - Lev 13:45,46

These considerations, and many other evidences, serve to confirm the necessity of Divine inspiration to account for the wisdom of the Bible. May we therefore concur with Paul:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. - II Tim 3:16,17


Check out my melody faithfulness is the fidelity of my soundtrack to that of the heavenlies.....
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