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HOLY SHIT!!!
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| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 25/Nov/09, 10:17 AM | Message # 16 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (abanks47) crazy, small world. I'd never want to meet that man. he had a very large hand in destroying his people. I know he was not solely responsible, i know greater powers were at work, but that man hurt millions of people through his drive for $. Be careful if you do decide to e-mail him. same thing did all presidents of the US including Obama so hate them too
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| abanks47 |
Date: Wednesday, 25/Nov/09, 12:32 PM | Message # 17 |
Emcees
Posts: 1466
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Quote when the hell was this?????
i saw on his episode of American Gangster which I would hope to be a credible source, that his first release from prison which was early to mid 90s, he'd claim to have reformed and was "helping the community" but went right back to doing the same shit under the disguise that he was helping his community out. Quote so where do you stand on this? would you not ever allow anyone of his stature out of prison no matter what or would you just frown upon that person? if that person was likely to do a great deal of good, i think your bias, given you picking the first option, would be harmful to society, especially considering Ross is actively trying to better the society as we speak.
Like i said, I think all can change, and i think some do change in prison. It's unfair and ignorant to think people cant change. Did R. Ross change? certainly a possibility but I cant find any respect in what he did, and i dont think theres anything in this world that could redeem him in my eyes. No ill will towards him, and i hope he can find some legal means of doing business because he obviously is an entrepreneur, but if he comes my way for a hand shake or a pat on the back, keep on steppin, wont get more than eye contact from me. Just for the sake of clarity, no i do not feel he should stay in prison mainly due to the scandal behind his case and how they try to pin everything on him, if he had acted in a more solo role, i definitely feel he should get life. Same goes for Lucas, Barnes, those Detroit Brothers(New Jack City), etc. They turned entire communitys inside out. Quote same thing did all presidents of the US including Obama so hate them too
You have no idea how much i dislike some in the world in reference to exposing people of all races to certain types of drugs. i heard some shit the other day that clinton is somehow still involved in runnin shit out of Arkansas, not a too credible source but still makes me think regardless.
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 25/Nov/09, 12:50 PM | Message # 18 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (abanks47) You have no idea how much i dislike some in the world in reference to exposing people of all races to certain types of drugs. i heard some shit the other day that clinton is somehow still involved in runnin shit out of Arkansas, not a too credible source but still makes me think regardless. OK but the US government is to blame here not some 2 bit drug dealers as Ross and others i mean you gotta understand the socio-political climate in which this huge drug wave came into the urban communities. We all know the CIA Drug connection under Reagan the Contras affair etc. Which are not simple unproven theories they are facts proved by the US supreme court. After the COINTELPRO illegally decimated community based militant organizations and the whole spirit of 68 as Mumia Abu Jamal said the urban communities gone berserk and in disarray. The Black Panthers became the Crips and the Bloods and because of economic pressure they got involved in drugs and so on . The problem is way deeper. Strong militant leaders became crack heads and dealers the pressure was too strong after being brutally killed and jailed shit gone wrong .
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| abanks47 |
Date: Wednesday, 25/Nov/09, 1:12 PM | Message # 19 |
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Emcees
Posts: 1466
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I do realize that the Gov is to blame completely, but that doesn't even come close to excusing Ross for what he did. Ross didn't have the heart to say "Wait, this product will kill my people! WTF am i doing?!" I know there are far greater powers at work but the fact of the matter is the poison went from ross to the streets and he has a large part in starting up the crack. I'm fully aware that if ross declined someone would have taken his place and I'd be talking about someone else but didn't happen like that.
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 25/Nov/09, 1:34 PM | Message # 20 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (abanks47) I do realize that the Gov is to blame completely, but that doesn't even come close to excusing Ross for what he did. Ross didn't have the heart to say "Wait, this product will kill my people! WTF am i doing?!" I know there are far greater powers at work but the fact of the matter is the poison went from ross to the streets and he has a large part in starting up the crack. I'm fully aware that if ross declined someone would have taken his place and I'd be talking about someone else but didn't happen like that. It did happen like that is relative instead of picking the direct individual pick the factors which created this individual the individual is often the product of certain social and environmental factors that's why in the US in particular crime isn't solved at a high level as in other western countries people finger point at individuals rather then at the source problem that being high poverty , social and political factors etc. I can stuff the prison whit billions of people i wouldn't stop crime. This type of thinking that you are presenting is 100% American the American way of resolving social problems.
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| abanks47 |
Date: Wednesday, 25/Nov/09, 5:46 PM | Message # 21 |
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Emcees
Posts: 1466
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It's not like I'm picking and choosing who I am disliking. I dislike anyone who has provided large quantities and the means to produce crack. Plain and simple. I like how you can read 4 of my posts and pretend like you know whats going on in my mind and than generalize my beliefs on the justice system basing it entirely on the country i reside in. Nice one
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 25/Nov/09, 6:19 PM | Message # 22 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (abanks47) It's not like I'm picking and choosing who I am disliking. I dislike anyone who has provided large quantities and the means to produce crack. Plain and simple. I like how you can read 4 of my posts and pretend like you know whats going on in my mind and than generalize my beliefs on the justice system basing it entirely on the country i reside in. Nice one Well of course the country that you live in shapes your and your opinions is natural . If you dislike anyone who provided and produced crack then inherently you hate the capitalist jungle and the system itself if you don't then your hitting a slippery slop . It's not moral nor ethical to blame these people when an entire society is based on greed , competition and profit by any means necessary. No one has right to criticize these people that produce or traffic drugs because voluntary actions are null in capitalist society. Wanna stop them wanna stop drugs change the system create a new society based on different values . Nobody does shit voluntarily and on consensus as they glorify it in this system everything builds up to it .
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| eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 25/Nov/09, 10:41 PM | Message # 23 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (Menace) Well of course the country that you live in shapes your and your opinions is natural . If you dislike anyone who provided and produced crack then inherently you hate the capitalist jungle and the system itself if you don't then your hitting a slippery slop . It's not moral nor ethical to blame these people when an entire society is based on greed , competition and profit by any means necessary. No one has right to criticize these people that produce or traffic drugs because voluntary actions are null in capitalist society. Wanna stop them wanna stop drugs change the system create a new society based on different values . Nobody does shit voluntarily and on consensus as they glorify it in this system everything builds up to it . i disagree. they do deserve SOME blame because they bought into the system and perpetuated the bad aspects. they effectively became the black people that sold their peers into slavery. that doesn't make them more immoral than the folks that encouraged them to do so though. in fact the people who did that are far more immoral, but that doesn't negate, for example, Rick Ross's immorality, but i believe that any immoral act can be counterbalanced.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| abanks47 |
Date: Thursday, 26/Nov/09, 3:21 AM | Message # 24 |
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Emcees
Posts: 1466
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Quote Well of course the country that you live in shapes your and your opinions is natural
I disagree, not sure how it is at your spot, but over here you can talk to 100 and get a 100 different opinions on the same topic. i dont think because you are in a country your a fucking cookie cutter and conform to the same views, ideas and opinions; BULLSHIT. proof of this is me and eboyds initial disagreement. is he a better person because his opinion is different from mine? are any of us any less or more american for the opinion we have? Quote It's not moral nor ethical to blame these people when an entire society is based on greed , competition and profit by any means necessary. No one has right to criticize these people that produce or traffic drugs because voluntary actions are null in capitalist society. Wanna stop them wanna stop drugs change the system create a new society based on different values . Nobody does shit voluntarily and on consensus as they glorify it in this system everything builds up to it .
i feel morally within my right to place blame on rick ross for selling crack. how can you disprove my right for doing this? theres nothing you can do or say that would make me forget the shit i've seen which is a direct result of him "being forced" into doing the deeds he did. as i stated in what seems like 3 other posts now, i am just as angry at the other factors involved. Quote i disagree. they do deserve SOME blame because they bought into the system and perpetuated the bad aspects. they effectively became the black people that sold their peers into slavery. that doesn't make them more immoral than the folks that encouraged them to do so though. in fact the people who did that are far more immoral, but that doesn't negate, for example, Rick Ross's immorality, but i believe that any immoral act can be counterbalanced.
I'm glad I'm not alone there. I know were not in 100% agreement but my eyes damn near bulged out of my head when i read that. To both of yall, what do you feel i should feel on ross. should i pat him on the head. forget what he's done and just move on?
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| eboyd |
Date: Thursday, 26/Nov/09, 10:45 AM | Message # 25 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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I can't speak for Menace but I personally think that anyone who commits a crime, especially of that caliber, absolutely needs to own up to what they did and incurs blame for what they did even after they've made amends for it because the damage is done, however, I feel that anyone who shows a serious enough effort to not only correct their mistake, but to become a model citizen, fighting for the betterment of society, that person deserves a second chance to live in our society and possibly even have their record wiped out (full pardon) so that they will not be inhibited by it when applying for jobs, for example. To give a somewhat extreme scenario to show you how this would work, if someone who molested a young girl, rather than being the average serial child molester, makes this mistake only once, turns himself in, admits to everything, apologizes to the girl and the family by letter, does whatever is in his power to assure the young girl suffers as little psychological damage as possible, actively seeks help for himself, and begins working on the development of support programs both for your rape and molestation victims and for people who feel awkward urges towards children and/or forced sexual contact of any kind to be able to come in and anonymously seek help before committing such a crime (obviously these two would be at separate locations though). I feel that anyone who does this and maintains himself, not committing any further crime, not only has worked himself back into a position of being a normal citizen, but has transformed himself into a model citizen, and so he, in my opinions deserves blame for his initial action, but also deserves to be forgiven in light of his many accomplishments that show that he has not only righted his wrongs, but he has actually actively accepted what he did and tried to assure that it doesn't occur to others in the future. And it may not even require as strenuous of measures in order to make this right, but that is just an example.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| abanks47 |
Date: Thursday, 26/Nov/09, 12:21 PM | Message # 26 |
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Emcees
Posts: 1466
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Quote I can't speak for Menace but I personally think that anyone who commits a crime, especially of that caliber, absolutely needs to own up to what they did and incurs blame for what they did even after they've made amends for it because the damage is done, however, I feel that anyone who shows a serious enough effort to not only correct their mistake, but to become a model citizen, fighting for the betterment of society, that person deserves a second chance to live in our society and possibly even have their record wiped out (full pardon) so that they will not be inhibited by it when applying for jobs, for example. To give a somewhat extreme scenario to show you how this would work, if someone who molested a young girl, rather than being the average serial child molester, makes this mistake only once, turns himself in, admits to everything, apologizes to the girl and the family by letter, does whatever is in his power to assure the young girl suffers as little psychological damage as possible, actively seeks help for himself, and begins working on the development of support programs both for your rape and molestation victims and for people who feel awkward urges towards children and/or forced sexual contact of any kind to be able to come in and anonymously seek help before committing such a crime (obviously these two would be at separate locations though). I feel that anyone who does this and maintains himself, not committing any further crime, not only has worked himself back into a position of being a normal citizen, but has transformed himself into a model citizen, and so he, in my opinions deserves blame for his initial action, but also deserves to be forgiven in light of his many accomplishments that show that he has not only righted his wrongs, but he has actually actively accepted what he did and tried to assure that it doesn't occur to others in the future. And it may not even require as strenuous of measures in order to make this right, but that is just an example.
I almost agree 100%. i dont think we should be forgetting what they did, erasing there record, but if there was proof that they were attempting to be a model citizen and clearly making strides towards this goal, i do not feel that that shit should come into account when trying to go for a job because motherfuckers see convict and automatically thinking MURDERER!my uncle for bout 10 years now can only do construction under the table cuz of his past.
And just another example of how I'm thinking I only dislike Ross on a personal level. Hypothetically if i were running a business and he applied, along with many others, if he were the most qualified i'd hire him. world dont run on my feelings and shit goes to the side when it comes to people earning there money.
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue |
Date: Thursday, 26/Nov/09, 1:54 PM | Message # 27 |
Emcees
Posts: 912
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wow - haven't been here in ages and still not a damn thing has changed - lol -
he did his time, he's out, he's changed...(that's what prison is technically for)...what's the problem? we all make mistakes and are entitled to forgiveness... oh and as for the email account - I'm pretty sure he had access to computers and email while he was locked up. Thats how he got the name first.
 "UNTIL THEY STOP ME, BURY, MURDER ME OR DROP ME, I GOT...THUG LUV FOR MY NATIONWIDE POSSE"
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| eboyd |
Date: Thursday, 26/Nov/09, 7:00 PM | Message # 28 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (abanks47) I almost agree 100%. i dont think we should be forgetting what they did, erasing there record, but if there was proof that they were attempting to be a model citizen and clearly making strides towards this goal, i do not feel that that shit should come into account when trying to go for a job because motherfuckers see convict and automatically thinking MURDERER!my uncle for bout 10 years now can only do construction under the table cuz of his past.
And just another example of how I'm thinking I only dislike Ross on a personal level. Hypothetically if i were running a business and he applied, along with many others, if he were the most qualified i'd hire him. world dont run on my feelings and shit goes to the side when it comes to people earning there money. ok, i just wanted to be sure of that. Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue) wow - haven't been here in ages and still not a damn thing has changed - lol -
he did his time, he's out, he's changed...(that's what prison is technically for)...what's the problem? we all make mistakes and are entitled to forgiveness... oh and as for the email account - I'm pretty sure he had access to computers and email while he was locked up. Thats how he got the name first. yeah, i just read that he was running some website while locked up and so that would account for the email address. btw, there's nothing wrong with debating! lol! so what if we do it a lot? it just shows that we are THINKING. last i checked, thinking was good thing. so there's considerably less hip hop discussed here than you would expect, but remember, we have a lot of artists and discussions like this often lead to art. if one of these discussions can lead to a track which will lead, eventually, to other people thinking about that topic, then i feel the discussion was a success.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| Menace |
Date: Thursday, 26/Nov/09, 7:20 PM | Message # 29 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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"Crime" can best be described as anti-social acts, or behavior which harms someone else or which invades their personal space. The root cause for crime is not some perversity of human nature or "original sin," but is due to the type of society by which people are molded. For example, eliminating capitalist private property, crime could be reduced by about 90 percent, since about 90 percent of crime is currently motivated by evils stemming from capitalist private property such as poverty, homelessness, unemployment, and alienation. "Crime", therefore, cannot be divorced from the society within which it occurs. Society, in Emma Goldman's words, gets the criminals it deserves. For example, do not think its unusual nor unexpected that crime exploded under the pro-free market capitalist regimes of Thatcher and Reagan. Crime, the most obvious symptom of social crisis, took 30 years to double in Britain (from 1 million incidents in 1950 to 2.2 million in 1979). However, between 1979 and 1992 the crime rate more than doubled, exceeding the 5 million mark in 1992. These 13 years were marked by a government firmly committed to the "free market" and "individual responsibility." Also prisons have numerous negative affects on society as well as often re-enforcing criminal (i.e. anti-social) behavior. Kropotkin originated the accurate description of prisons as "Universities of Crime" wherein the first-time criminal learns new techniques and have adapted to the prevailing ethical standards within them. Hence, prisons would have the effect of increasing the criminal tendencies of those sent there and so prove to be counter-productive. In addition, prisons do not affect the social conditions which promote many forms of crime. I am not saying, however, that i reject the concept of individual responsibility. While recognizing that rape, for example, is the result of a social system which represses sexuality and is based on patriarchy (i.e. rape has more to do with power than sex), i don't "sit back" and say "it's society's fault." Individuals have to take responsibility for their own actions and recognize that consequences of those actions. Part of the current problem with "law codes" is that individuals have been deprived of the responsibility for developing their own ethical code, and so are less likely to develop "civilized" social standards.
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