Quote (sodr2)
btw i meant would u still be celebrating the "winter solstice" on dec 25 if christmas was on jan 7
if the holiday was still preserved. because i was raised in Christianity and converted to atheism, however, i'd probably feel quite alone. for that purpose i am thankful that they did say he was born on the 25th because otherwise i would have nothing to celebrate on the days that my family is celebrating. idk though. i'd probably still be celebrating it just because i like the idea of spending time with family, having time off work/school to rest, giving gifts, etc. it is a very positive time of year, and there is no necessity for it to be celebratory of someone's birthday. we can celebrate it for any reason we feel.
Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue)
cool, whatever people believe...
1) just dont call it Christmas... we as CHRISTians celebrate it as the birth of our saviour, while we may not have the date right the meaning is there -
2) all that 'pagan' bullshit is also said to have stemmed from them knowing that Christ was coming on that time period so ppl started celebrating other shit to fit their own beliefs... whatever tho', thats a whole other topic I dont wanna get into
Added (26/Nov/09, 3:12 Pm)
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and im not being mean by saying that menace... I'm sayiong 3) if you only celebrate christmas b/c you know it as time off work/school and getting presents then it shouldn't be celebrated- that's like me going out and having my own party and stealing everyone from yours on your birthday
before i get into this, let me make it clear that i did not instigate anything here, i simply said that i celebrate the winter solstice rather than christmas and then i stated that all i want is to spend time with my girlfriend. the issue blew up unnecessarily after that.
ok, well, obviously i have a few things to address here:
1) what if i believe that Christ did exist but was simply a great moral teacher (as the Christian Atheists do as do many Jews and Muslims) and i wanted to celebrate his birthday? it would be sort of like how we Americans celebrate Martin Luther King Day (even though it isn't a huge holiday, it is still one that we celebrate). should we not celebrate MLK Day because we don't believe MLK was divine?
2) first off, i do not think you would appreciate me calling what christians believe "that christian bullshit", and as there are still people today who claim to be pagan, i would like to ask you -- though since you have your first amendment right you may decline if you so choose -- to refrain from referring to other people's beliefs as "bullshit" as it tends to be quite hurtful to them. secondly, that is quite false. pagans didn't have a unified belief system, but many believed in a god or gods, some believed in a messiah who was soon to come, but not all believed in those things, and even if they did, they didn't necessarily believe in jesus nor claim to know when their messiah was going to come. the winter solstice is when the sun is lowest during the day in the sky as it seems to rest for 3 days in the northern crux and rise again. it has nothing to do with a divinity. it is a holiday based on a season.
3) this one is so fucked up and absurd that it is ridiculous. where do i start?:
A) as i explained above, paganism doesn't in any way allude to jesus being born on december 25th. that is, quite frankly, absurd. as paganism predates christ, and therefore christianity, and the pagans were celebrating the winter solstice before christians celebrated christmas, then if anyone was "stealing" it was the roman catholic church and emperor constantine who decided to call arianism (the practice of believing in Jesus as a messiah but not the divine son of god) heretical and, at the council of nicaea, decided to consolidate the winter solstice celebration with christmas.
B) who are you to dictate what should and shouldn't be celebrated???? if i want to celebrate MLK's birthday, for example, by giving people presents, is there a problem with doing that if it is a tradition in my family? what if we just like giving gifts to each other or feel that we need a break from school/work sometimes and consider that a time to celebrate?
C) by your logic, you are celebrating jesus' birthday by giving other people that aren't jesus gifts, so technically you are stealing the holiday too. if you were a real christian you would give jesus gifts for his birthday, even if it is just love, but giving gifts to other people is a no-no.
D) it is not like having my own party and stealing everyone from your party. is hannuka stealing everyone from jesus' big b-day bash? kwanza? absolutely not. then why is the winter solstice doing that??? it's more like this: we were born on the same day and decided to have our parties the same day because of it. in fact, i'd argue that it is more like my birthday was that day and yours was a few weeks later so we decided to have a birthday party for both of us on my birthday.
