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Tell It With A Pic
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| abanks47 |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 3:50 PM | Message # 256 |
Emcees
Posts: 1466
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Quote Damn at that pic " A Short History of modern African-American Music " simply damn how much the quality of music lowered WOOOW simply WOOOW i mean look at the musical notes and people saying Lil Wayne contributed to music LOL
Quote what's up your butt? it's true
as satire one could argue it being truth, but to go from j.c. to l.w. is spitting on so many cats not even funny. there's no history there its just a simple comparrision of the two, one being a genius the other incredibly dumbed down and simplified. how has lil wayne not contributed to music menace?
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| ALCATRAZ |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 3:52 PM | Message # 257 |
Writers
Posts: 473
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Quote (eboyd) what's up your butt? it's true how about a more realistic comparison next time LOL
"I personally think OBCL2 is better than the original" - Lord Meth 
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| Menace |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 4:45 PM | Message # 258 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (abanks47) as satire one could argue it being truth, but to go from j.c. to l.w. is spitting on so many cats not even funny. there's no history there its just a simple comparrision of the two, one being a genius the other incredibly dumbed down and simplified. how has lil wayne not contributed to music menace? well i heard some people here on the forums saying that in fact what you said was my point how can music get so low ? time passes and music get's lower and lower ?
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| abanks47 |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 5:01 PM | Message # 259 |
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Emcees
Posts: 1466
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Quote well i heard some people here on the forums saying that in fact what you said was my point how can music get so low ? time passes and music get's lower and lower ?
its all dependent on the eye of the beholder. some may think lil wayne as the new mozart.
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| Menace |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 5:09 PM | Message # 260 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (abanks47)
its all dependent on the eye of the beholder. some may think lil wayne as the new mozart. well musically he can't be he does not contribute to musical history at all and musically he is a wreck
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| eboyd |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 5:48 PM | Message # 261 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (abanks47) as satire one could argue it being truth, but to go from j.c. to l.w. is spitting on so many cats not even funny. there's no history there its just a simple comparrision of the two, one being a genius the other incredibly dumbed down and simplified. yes, but the point is that music has never been so dumbed down and simplified ever in history as it is today because today it's manufactured and looked at as a product. Quote (abanks47) how has lil wayne not contributed to music menace? i know i'm not Menace, but the real question is how HAS he? you're making the claim that he has, you need to provide evidence. the burden of proof is on you. Quote (ALCATRAZ) how about a more realistic comparison next time LOL lol true. there are great musicians still today and musicians that were nowhere near as skilled as JC back then, but the problem is, there's never been a time where the music has been so dumbed down as the period we are currently living in. that's where the comparison comes into play with reality, even though it is meant to be comedic. Quote (abanks47) its all dependent on the eye of the beholder. some may think lil wayne as the new mozart. they can think that all they want, but i can objectively say that Lil Wayne is nowhere near as good a musician as Mozart and his music is not and never will be as influential on music, complex, nor substantial as Mozart's. whether or not Lil Wayne's music is "better" is, however, still a matter of opinion.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| abanks47 |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 6:24 PM | Message # 262 |
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Emcees
Posts: 1466
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Quote yes, but the point is that music has never been so dumbed down and simplified ever in history as it is today because today it's manufactured and looked at as a product.
I think its partially been like that forever, people are just more honest about that now a days. IMHO Quote
i know i'm not Menace, but the real question is how HAS he? you're making the claim that he has, you need to provide evidence. the burden of proof is on you.
Your question "how has he contributed to music" is incredibly easy to answer:
Studio Albums * 1999: Tha Block Is Hot
* 2000: Lights Out
* 2002: 500 Degreez
* 2004: Tha Carter
* 2005: Tha Carter II
* 2008: Tha Carter III
* 2010: Rebirth[49]
* 2010: Tha Carter IV[99] Collaboration Albums * 2006: Like Father, Like Son (with Birdman)
* 2009: We Are Young Money (with Young Money Entertainment)
* TBA: I Can't Feel My Face (with Juelz Santana)
* TBA: Hot Boyz Reunion (with Juvenile, B.G. & Turk)[100][101][102] Official Mixtapes * 2003: SQ1-SQ7 (with Sqad Up)
* 2003: Da Drought
* 2004: Da Drought 2
* 2004: The Prefix
* 2005: The Suffix
* 2005: Dedication (with DJ Drama)
* 2006: Dedication 2 (with DJ Drama)
* 2007: Da Drought 3
* 2008: Dedication 3
* 2009: No Ceilings THANKS WIKI Quote hey can think that all they want, but i can objectively say that Lil Wayne is nowhere near as good a musician as Mozart and his music is not and never will be as influential on music, complex, nor substantial as Mozart's. whether or not Lil Wayne's music is "better" is, however, still a matter of opinion.
i agree with your last statement but i would apply all of what you said as a matter of opinion. There is no way you can measure how good of a musician mozart was in comparrison to lil wayne. i dont think that lil wayne is better personally but i cant hate on someone who does because its there opinion, just as me saying mozart is better is mine. I think given some time lil wayne can influence more people if he's going to continue to make tracks that people love at the rate he's going. he might be the most famous rapper of all time one day.
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| Lord_Meth |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 7:40 PM | Message # 263 |
Heads
Posts: 6627
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Aint that a guy from N Sync or Backstreet boys?
Sick With It
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| Menace |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 7:53 PM | Message # 264 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (abanks47) Your question "how has he contributed to music" is incredibly easy to answer: Studio Albums * 1999: Tha Block Is Hot
* 2000: Lights Out
* 2002: 500 Degreez
* 2004: Tha Carter
* 2005: Tha Carter II
* 2008: Tha Carter III
* 2010: Rebirth[49]
* 2010: Tha Carter IV[99] Collaboration Albums * 2006: Like Father, Like Son (with Birdman)
* 2009: We Are Young Money (with Young Money Entertainment)
* TBA: I Can't Feel My Face (with Juelz Santana)
* TBA: Hot Boyz Reunion (with Juvenile, B.G. & Turk)[100][101][102] Official Mixtapes * 2003: SQ1-SQ7 (with Sqad Up)
* 2003: Da Drought
* 2004: Da Drought 2
* 2004: The Prefix
* 2005: The Suffix
* 2005: Dedication (with DJ Drama)
* 2006: Dedication 2 (with DJ Drama)
* 2007: Da Drought 3
* 2008: Dedication 3
* 2009: No Ceilings THANKS WIKI none of those had such social , cultural nor musical impact on the world for some years the music industry stopped creating good musicians . Music in general slowed. It is a crisis in music now days and nobody can't deny it . Quote (abanks47)
I think its partially been like that forever, people are just more honest about that now a days. IMHO Not really there were times when good music was good music you got the famous 1920s–1960s the spawn which revolutionized music . Music really stopped developing when we entered the 21century. Around the year 2000 nothing new took over the world . The music of now days will be forgotten because its a commodity a product which can't sustain itself when the market has no need for it , it trows it in the garbage so that's why the music of now days will never touch the minds of future generations . The market will shit on them .
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| abanks47 |
Date: Tuesday, 05/Jan/10, 9:21 PM | Message # 265 |
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Emcees
Posts: 1466
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Quote none of those had such social , cultural nor musical impact on the world for some years the music industry stopped creating good musicians . Music in general slowed. It is a crisis in music now days and nobody can't deny it .
I can't keep saying this but I will if you guys keep coming at me like this. That's an opinionated statement. to you it may not have but that may be a different statement to the people of New Orleans or people who are just getting old enough to work a radio on there own and are discovering wayne for the first time and liked it. he helped usher in the new style of hip hop with no limit and the rest of cash money, regardless if you dont like there style, they were original and they did there thing while haters (abanks looks around the room) were hating on them. I also feel that the no limit/cashmoney boom had a pretty significant impact socially , culturally and musically. maybe not to the extent of Mozart but they almost changed hip hop's definition entirely and there effect is still seen today in hip hop. Quote Not really there were times when good music was good music you got the famous 1920s–1960s the spawn which revolutionized music . Music really stopped developing when we entered the 21century. Around the year 2000 nothing new took over the world . The music of now days will be forgotten because its a commodity a product which can't sustain itself when the market has no need for it , it trows it in the garbage so that's why the music of now days will never touch the minds of future generations . The market will shit on them .
i've argued this many times as well. we are becoming the adults that are parents were when we were kids. They judged hip hop the way there parents judged rock/funk/psychedelic music. people of our generation are becoming there parents by hating on "mainstream" hip hop and how its not "real music".
do you really think it was all about the music back then? dude it was there passion, im sure most loved what they did but it was there profession in the end and a large portion of what they did was for there paychecks. Nice clothes, pretty faces, movies, ads, jingles were those for the sake of good music? no sir it was not it was for the almighty dollar. i say again: Quote I think its partially been like that forever, people are just more honest about that now a days. IMHO
As for modern day music and its future, i think it will be no different than music from any other era, we will remember as a society what we want to remember; the big hits and classic albums WILL be remembered. Who remembers every chi-lites song? no one people just bump have you seen her. who knows every dramatics track, no one; people just bump i wanna go outside. not saying thats cool, i love both but its fact that there not remembered for there overall contributions, just there hit singles. same will continue to happen in rap as we continue on with our lives.
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 06/Jan/10, 3:05 AM | Message # 266 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (abanks47) There is no way you can measure how good of a musician mozart was in comparrison to lil wayne. yes you can. how? by comparing the complexity of their music, their knowledge of music theory, their influence on music, etc. this was the whole point of my post and you said you agreed but then went against it. Quote (abanks47) That's an opinionated statement. no it isn't. maybe to an extent, but we can look at history and predict to a high level of accuracy what will happen in the future. for example, what artist do you know more about today, Paul Whiteman or Louis Armstrong? i'm guessing undoubtedly the answer is Satch. would you believe me if i told you that Paul Whiteman was far more popular when both artists were in their hey day? you're a smart guy so i assume you know this. other than the obvious factor of racism that doesn't exist to the degree today as it did then, this is a great example of how the popular artists of the day that show that they are quantifiably less talented tend to have a shorter lived fame while the more talented though, albeit, less popular artists tend to have a lasting influence. going by this logic, Lil Wayne isn't going to affect music in anywhere near the way that Mozart has. to believe he will is laughable and absurd to the highest degree. and if by some nightmare come true he does, this reflects that our world is going to hell in a hand basket. Quote (abanks47) They judged hip hop the way there parents judged rock/funk/psychedelic music. people of our generation are becoming there parents by hating on "mainstream" hip hop and how its not "real music". no, that's not at all what we're doing. the parents were calling the risque music their kids listened to the "work of the devil". we listen to music that is as crass if not more so than Lil Wayne (NWA, 2 Live Crew, Necro, Wu Tang, etc.) but we can also freely admit that hardly any of it holds a candle to Mozart (none of the groups i mentioned even come close except MAYBE RZA's more complex work) and we aren't too blind to see that Lil Wayne is more of a "right now" artist than Paul Whiteman was 90 years ago.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 06/Jan/10, 4:07 AM | Message # 267 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (abanks47) the big hits and classic albums WILL be remembered we remember the pop hits from the one hit wonders and pop sensations of the time and forget their names, while we remember the names of the big musicians but may or may not forget their works: Mozart
Beethoven
Vivaldi
Scott Joplin
Bessie Smith
Waller
Armstrong
Ella Fitzgerald
Ellington
Miles Davis
Coltrane
The Beatles
Bob Dylan
Hendrix
Marley
2pac
etc.... these people won't be forgotten. Lil Wayne will.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| abanks47 |
Date: Wednesday, 06/Jan/10, 4:43 AM | Message # 268 |
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Emcees
Posts: 1466
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Quote yes you can. how? by comparing the complexity of their music, their knowledge of music theory, their influence on music, etc. this was the whole point of my post and you said you agreed but then went against it.
For the record: “whether or not Lil Wayne's music is "better" is, however, still a matter of opinion.” That’s what I was referring to when I said I agreed with the last part of your statement. I meant that particular portion of the sentence not the whole paragraph, should have been more specific.
Please provide the formula to which you can measure the amount of influence one’s music has had. Also what would you define influence. Think of what Mozart’s music did for his audience. I would imagine everyone sitting calmly in there seats, clapping and that being the end. Wayne “influences” crowds and scores of people daily to nod there heads to let loose, get at females and just have fun. If you use the term “influence” loosely I think it could be argued that Wayne will influence many more than Mozart. Music Theory? So if I study music theory I can be better than Lil Wayne? Once again, I feel your theory would be an opinionated one and would not prove any facts. In order to really get a full scale of what the two have done, we’d have to speak to each person whose listened to Mozart and each whose listened to Lil Wayne. I realize this is an impossibility which is why I laughed at the statement in the first place. Quote no it isn't. maybe to an extent, but we can look at history and predict to a high level of accuracy what will happen in the future. for example, what artist do you know more about today, Paul Whiteman or Louis Armstrong? i'm guessing undoubtedly the answer is Satch. would you believe me if i told you that Paul Whiteman was far more popular when both artists were in their hey day? you're a smart guy so i assume you know this. other than the obvious factor of racism that doesn't exist to the degree today as it did then, this is a great example of how the popular artists of the day that show that they are quantifiably less talented tend to have a shorter lived fame while the more talented though, albeit, less popular artists tend to have a lasting influence. going by this logic, Lil Wayne isn't going to affect music in anywhere near the way that Mozart has. to believe he will is laughable and absurd to the highest degree. and if by some nightmare come true he does, this reflects that our world is going to hell in a hand basket.
I didn’t know that, never even heard of dude but if you were living at that point would you believe anyone who said that Louis is going to be remembered for a long time to come, and held in higher regards as Paul? I don’t think most would agree (I’m of course making that statement based off your comments, could be wrong but if he was as popular as you say he is than I think it has some weight to it). Too my next point Wayne has sold an estimated 16 million records world wide (not sure how credible the source is off of yahoo answers to lazy to go that in depth). Now when I think of numbers like that the first people that come to mind are the beatles and 2pac, both of whom on your list….(listens to the crickets). He will not be forgotten for his achievements in the music industry and I think it to be absurd if you think that he will within at least the next 100 years. Quote no, that's not at all what we're doing. the parents were calling the risque music their kids listened to the "work of the devil". we listen to music that is as crass if not more so than Lil Wayne (NWA, 2 Live Crew, Necro, Wu Tang, etc.) but we can also freely admit that hardly any of it holds a candle to Mozart (none of the groups i mentioned even come close except MAYBE RZA's more complex work) and we aren't too blind to see that Lil Wayne is more of a "right now" artist than Paul Whiteman was 90 years ago.
Yes sometimes it was in regards to there religion, calling it “Devil Music”, but many people just didn’t plain like it. I can’t admit that it doesn’t hold a candle to Mozart (my favorites in music). I hold many in higher regards than I do him and its because of my opinions and tastes in music. I wouldn’t hate on you for not doing so but its just how I see shit. LOL im listening to a Kurupt song right now that I hold in higher regards than most of Mozart’s shit (Trylogy). I guess I am too blind to see it, or you are too blind to not realize that he has cemented his place in american music and will be remembered for years, decades and centuries : ) Quote Mozart
Beethoven
Vivaldi
Scott Joplin
Bessie Smith
Waller
Armstrong
Ella Fitzgerald
Ellington
Miles Davis
Coltrane
The Beatles
Bob Dylan
Hendrix
Marley
2pac
i would honestly be shocked if you could name an album or a composition by each of these people without using wiki. If you think you can sell millions and be downloaded 10s of millions of times and be forgotten your living in a dream world lol. we remember big hits, plain and simple. Marleys catalog is one of the most extensive but most just no his face and a few of his big songs. they dont know shit about the dude and the same goes with most of the people on your list. you can wear your blinders if you want but Lil Wayne WILL be remembered for a very long time. For the record I am not a huge supporter of dude but i respect him and his art and realize that my disliking of him is opinionated.
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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| eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 06/Jan/10, 7:14 AM | Message # 269 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (abanks47) For the record: “whether or not Lil Wayne's music is "better" is, however, still a matter of opinion.” That’s what I was referring to when I said I agreed with the last part of your statement. I meant that particular portion of the sentence not the whole paragraph, should have been more specific.
Please provide the formula to which you can measure the amount of influence one’s music has had. Also what would you define influence. Think of what Mozart’s music did for his audience. I would imagine everyone sitting calmly in there seats, clapping and that being the end. Wayne “influences” crowds and scores of people daily to nod there heads to let loose, get at females and just have fun. If you use the term “influence” loosely I think it could be argued that Wayne will influence many more than Mozart. Music Theory? So if I study music theory I can be better than Lil Wayne? Once again, I feel your theory would be an opinionated one and would not prove any facts. In order to really get a full scale of what the two have done, we’d have to speak to each person whose listened to Mozart and each whose listened to Lil Wayne. I realize this is an impossibility which is why I laughed at the statement in the first place. "mu·si·cian (myōō-zĭsh'ən)
n. One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music." Mozart is a far more skilled musician. he was a violin virtuoso at a VERY young age and a master composer before reaching puberty. skill wise we can OBJECTIVELY say that Mozart was superior. anyone considering Lil Wayne a skilled musician is simply incorrect. we can objectively say that Ray Lewis is a far better linebacker than a high school linebacker who was the star of his football team but went no further. this is a fair comparison. if we were comparing Mozart to, say, Beethoven, it would be a far more sound comparison. even Mozart to Coltrane is a fair comparison. in fact i think i might give the edge to Coltrane in this circumstance. such a comparison would come down to opinion. there's a point where opinion, however, becomes irrelevant. and even in this circumstance, skill-level is objective. the difference is that when comparing closer competition such as Beethoven and Coltrane, you need to calculate more accurately to get a good distinction and i don't have a set guide for such a calculation. Quote (abanks47) Yes sometimes it was in regards to there religion, calling it “Devil Music”, but many people just didn’t plain like it. I can’t admit that it doesn’t hold a candle to Mozart (my favorites in music). I hold many in higher regards than I do him and its because of my opinions and tastes in music. I wouldn’t hate on you for not doing so but its just how I see shit. LOL im listening to a Kurupt song right now that I hold in higher regards than most of Mozart’s shit (Trylogy). I guess I am too blind to see it, or you are too blind to not realize that he has cemented his place in american music and will be remembered for years, decades and centuries : ) you can hold them in higher regard all you want because that is your opinion, but it is a FACT that Kurupt is nowhere near as skilled a musician as Mozart was. Quote (abanks47) i would honestly be shocked if you could name an album or a composition by each of these people without using wiki. If you think you can sell millions and be downloaded 10s of millions of times and be forgotten your living in a dream world lol. Mozart - Requiem
Beethoven - 5th symphony
Vivaldi - The Four Seasons (of which Spring is my personal favorite and probably the most recognized)
Scott Joplin - Maple Leaf Rag
Bessie Smith - Saint Louis Blues
Waller - Honeysuckle Rose
Armstrong - What a Wonderful World
Ella Fitzgerald - Mack The Knife
Ellington - Take the A Train
Miles Davis - So What?
Coltrane - A Love Supreme (my absolute favorite album of all time)
The Beatles - The White Album
Bob Dylan - Subterranean Lovesick Blues
Hendrix - Are You Experienced?
Marley - Exodus
2pac - Me Against the World (my favorite Pac album) i will also admit that i had to think long and hard to remember the names of the tracks i was thinking of from Mozart, Bessie Smith and Fats Waller, but i remembered. now may i ask, exactly how was this important? the point is that whether a person knows the work or not, the names are still huge because they are still admired by scholars and fans alike. i guarantee you will not hear more than a short mention of Lil Wayne when hip hop is taught in schools. as with every genre, the focus is on the most skilled and influential (in terms of the genre, not pop culture) artists, not the ones that were most popular at the time. that's why Jazz appreciation courses teach about Ellington, Coltrane, Coleman, Davis, etc., in detail but only brush over names like Paul Whiteman briefly even though he was dubbed the "King of Jazz" in the 20's. Quote (abanks47) we remember big hits, plain and simple. Marleys catalog is one of the most extensive but most just no his face and a few of his big songs. they dont know shit about the dude and the same goes with most of the people on your list. you can wear your blinders if you want but Lil Wayne WILL be remembered for a very long time. which one of these songs holds more weight in your memory between these two?: exhibit a: or exhibit b: ???
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| abanks47 |
Date: Wednesday, 06/Jan/10, 1:31 PM | Message # 270 |
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Emcees
Posts: 1466
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all opinion dude, i am sorry but there's no convincing me. "mu·si·cian (myōō-zĭsh'ən)
n. One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music."
Lil wayne is in that definiton no?
whether it be for better or for worse Lil Wayne will be remembered for many years. hes done way to much to sinply fall between the cracks. And how could you feel justified in giving coltrane an edge over mozart and i not somehow for kurupt? you said immediately afterwords that it would come down to opinion. how would it come down to an opinion for one and not another? That makes no sense to me what so ever. I also agree that Mozart was a fuckin Prodigy, started out super young and was playing for kings in his early years. Well Lil wayne wrote his first rap at age 8, according to Wiki. Does this make him a better rapper, not in the slightest but shows the love for music was present at a very early age. If they leave lil wayne out of hip hop history because he was also meshed in with pop culture, I feel they would be cheating the students because he is cemented in hip hop history. can't deny it. it be like ignoring racists in the civil rights movement because people dont appreciate there culture. all of history must be taught, not just the parts we love and that goes for music as well Personally neither, but i would prolly pick the wonderful world song.
LIL WAYNE Will be remembered
LIL WAYNE Will be remembered
LIL WAYNE Will be remembered
LIL WAYNE Will be remembered
LIL WAYNE Will be remembered Added (06/Jan/10, 1:31 Pm)
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one more for good measure
LIL WAYNE Will be remembered
A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT. "I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X “those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”
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