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Forum » Off-Topic » Sports & Entertainment » Lance Armstrong on Life and Death (an excerpt from his book)
Lance Armstrong on Life and Death
eboyd Date: Saturday, 07/Nov/09, 7:12 PM | Message # 1

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After reading this, I admire Lance Armstrong wholeheartedly. This was from during the time when he was going through his struggle with brain cancer and wasn't sure if he was going to survive. It is a unique view in that, though others likely share it (as I hope to if I ever go through what he went through), he is the only person I've ever seen or heard share it, especially so eloquently. If you didn't already know, Lance Armstrong is an atheist. The story I heard, also, was that this was the experience that led him to atheism oddly enough. He seemed to be confused before coming down with brain cancer, but I think during that period he realized what he really believed. Anyways, here is the excerpt:

"The night before brain surgery, I thought about death. I searched out my larger values, and I asked myself, if I was going to die, did I want to do it fighting and clawing or in peaceful surrender? What sort of character did I hope to show? Was I content with myself and what I had done with my life so far? I decided that I was essentially a good person, although I could have been better--but at the same time I understood that the cancer didn't care. I asked myself what I believed. I had never prayed a lot. I hoped hard, I wished hard, but I didn't pray. I had developed a certain distrust of organized religion growing up, but I felt I had the capacity to be a spiritual person, and to hold some fervent beliefs. Quite simply, I believed I had a responsiblity to be a good person, and that meant fair, honest, hardworking, and honorable. If I did that, if I was good to my family, true to my friends, if I gave back to my community or to some cause, if I wasn't a liar, a cheat, or a thief, then I believed that should be enough. At the end of the day, if there was indeed some Body or presence standing there to judge me, I hoped I would be judged on whether I had lived a true life, not on whther I believed in a certain book, or whether I'd been baptized. If there was indeed a God at the end of my days, I hoped he didn't say, "But you were never a Christian, so you're going the other way from heaven." If so, I was going to reply, "You know what? You're right. Fine." I believed, too, in the doctors and the medicine and the surgeries--I believed in that. I believed in them. A person like Dr. Einhorn [his oncologist], that's someone to believe in, I thought, a person with the mind to develop an experimental treatment 20 years ago that now could save my life. I believed in the hard currency of his intelligence and his research. Beyond that, I had no idea where to draw the line between spiritual belief and science. But I knew this much: I believed in belief, for its own shining sake. To believe in the face of utter hopelessness, every article of evidence to the contrary, to ignore apparent catastrophe--what other choice was there? We do it every day, I realized. We are so much stronger than we imagine, and belief is one of the most valiant and long-lived human characteristics. To believe, when all along we humans know that nothing can cure the briefness of this life, that there is no remedy for our basic mortality, that is a form of bravery. To continue believing in yourself, believing in the doctors, believing in the treatment, believing in whatever I chose to believe in, that was the most important thing, I decided. It had to be. Without belief, we would be left with nothing but an overwhelming doom, every single day. And it will beat you. I didn't fully see, until the cancer, how we fight every day gainst the creeping negatives of the world, how we struggle daily against the slow lapping of cynicism. Dispiritedness and disappointment, these were the real perils of life, not some sudden illness or cataclysmic millennium doomsday. I knew now why people fear cancer: because it is a slow and inevitable death, it is the very definition of cynicism and loss of spirit. So, I believed."


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ilikebacon3000 Date: Saturday, 07/Nov/09, 11:18 PM | Message # 2

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Quote (eboyd)
If there was indeed a God at the end of my days, I hoped he didn't say, "But you were never a Christian, so you're going the other way from heaven." If so, I was going to reply, "You know what? You're right. Fine."

All I can say is that he just summed up the story of my life in that quote.... I admire that he has the courage to do that.... I know for a fact that if I was that close to death, I would be praying to Jesus H. Christ for forgiveness, even though I don't truly believe it...


Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
eboyd Date: Sunday, 08/Nov/09, 3:23 AM | Message # 3

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Yeah, idk what I will do in a situation that close to death. I've heard of accounts of great atheists praying while on their deathbed. A rumor (though likely creationist bullshit myth) has been circulating for years that Darwin recanted on his deathbed. I just hope to have the strength to be able to do what Lance did when that day comes.

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Menace Date: Sunday, 08/Nov/09, 9:26 AM | Message # 4

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Quote (ilikebacon3000)
Jesus H. Christ

Jesus . H . Christ ?? where the H coming from i thought his name was Yoshua Ben Yosef and later Jesus of Nazareth and later renamed by the Greeks Jesus Christ


eboyd Date: Sunday, 08/Nov/09, 7:36 PM | Message # 5

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[3 |_| |V| |"

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

eboyd Date: Tuesday, 10/Nov/09, 10:24 PM | Message # 6

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Darwin was the second agnostic (as his good friend and colleague Thomas Huxley basically invented the term, Huxley being the first). Agnosticism really is the only fair assessment of all that exists, but since it is only a knowledge claim, atheism being a lack of belief, they are not mutually exclusive. Very few people, especially those who have studied as much as Darwin, are directly in the middle with their agnosticism and so favor one side to another at varying degrees. And anyone who does likely is not a neutral agnostic, but an apatheist (they don't give a shit if there is or not). Therefore, anyone who claims agnosticism but thinks it is more likely that God doesn't exist, no matter to what degree, is an atheist. Any agnostic who thinks belief in God is more plausible is a theist or a deist.

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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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I_Guy Date: Tuesday, 10/Nov/09, 10:33 PM | Message # 7

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If you do enough philosophy and realize the naturalness of the universe through science, you will reconcile death. Just read anything by Carl Sagan. His words will cure your despair. So will secular humanism.

We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
eboyd Date: Tuesday, 10/Nov/09, 11:14 PM | Message # 8

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The only people that are just "agnostic" are those who feel that God is just as likely to exist as he/she/it is to not exist yet they do care about the issue. If they choose either direction they are not an agnostic (or at least not only) by definition. If they don't care they are an apatheist. How many true agnostics do you know? The VERY large (in comparison to real agnostics) majority of them are either agnostic atheists (commonly referred to simply as "atheists") or agnostic theists. How many people do you know that have actually spent time searching the answer to the issue that haven't at some point formed an opinion that favored one direction over the other? Probably not many.

I am an agnostic atheist, but you may simply call me an atheist. I've grown to like the term.


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

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Menace Date: Wednesday, 11/Nov/09, 9:59 AM | Message # 9

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So will secular humanism.

exactly that's why i am such a fierce defender of secular humanism and the main reason why i joined the such an organization here in Romania


ilikebacon3000 Date: Wednesday, 11/Nov/09, 10:17 PM | Message # 10

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I am an agonostic theist.
isnt another term for that a "deist"?


Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.
eboyd Date: Thursday, 12/Nov/09, 3:10 AM | Message # 11

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No. An agnostic theist is someone who believes in a God that is personal and considers it to be more likely, but is open to the idea that there may be no God. A deist is someone who believes in an impersonal God who simply "set things in motion" so to speak, but has little to no interaction with living beings today and may not even exist anymore. Because of religious dogma, a large portion of people who believe in a God but are agnostic fit in the deist category. Theists tend to fit in the gnostic category (meaning that they claim to know of God's existence with absolute certainty). By default, if everyone were to be honest with themselves, we are all agnostic. No one is really gnostic. There is not a single person who knows anything for a fact, whether it be a theist or an atheist. Other categorizations include apatheism (people who don't care if a God exists or not), pantheism (God is nature), panentheism (God is nature but also has some supernatural aspects to it, "supernatural" meaning that which can never be explained scientifically), pandeism (same as pantheism but with more deistic ideologies), etc. All of these can be stamped as "agnostic" or "gnostic" as well.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Forum » Off-Topic » Sports & Entertainment » Lance Armstrong on Life and Death (an excerpt from his book)
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