Quote (EmSeeD)
believe it or not the illuminati conspiracies started out from the right wing, now its gone over to the left
well aware of this
Quote (howsyourmom)
the whole owner of wtc taking out insurance policy year before, desert storm by bush's father and his hatred for saddam, vast oil quantities in iraq and financial benefits of war etc. only leads me to believe that 9/11 was setup. couple this with the facts from the above links (specifically first one) and you paint a picture of the bush family and banks that only exonerate any trustworthy behaviour. financial gain is MUCH more important than life and it always will be for the rich.
none of this information in ANY WAY ties him directly to the 9/11 conspiracy. as Chomsky stated, you cannot deny that the Bush family gained from 9/11, but a cover up of such a scale is so improbable that it is absurd to even postulate. there are more relevant and important issues at hand. we are only wasting energy focusing on such issues.
Quote (howsyourmom)
and we all know how the CIA previously funded and trained osama as well as "al quaeda" before desert storm and their main excuse was "he wasn't a threat back then" (one of MANY miscues).
Osama absolutely was funded by the CIA quite a few years back. so was Saddam and so were the Contras in Nicaragua. even my right wing father agrees to all of that. none of this is proof of a 9/11 conspiracy though, especially considering there is extensive evidence long before 9/11 showing that Osama went rogue and had been in the top ten of the most wanted list for quite some time prior. as for Al Qaeda, the organization isn't a monolith as many have a common misconception of. there are Al Qaeda all over the middle east and they are spreading more and more as we continue this war. they are not at all a centralized group, however. they are made up of many smaller terrorist organizations and they recruit civilians (usually by force) to fight and suicide bomb. America should keep their fucking nose out of such business and the CIA needs to stop assassinating and overthrowing the leaders of other countries. there's a conspiracy theory that is well supported factually. we have enough evidence to show the CIA has been involved on numerous occasions in coups and assassination attempts including the attempt on the life of the Iraqi leader before Saddam who subsequently step down for Saddam and the Baath party to take over. it was the CIA that set all of this up. there were American businesses doing business with Hitler during WW2 and the Holocaust. one such company was a bank run by Prescott Bush, Dubya's granddad. this is undeniable. i've read extensively on this. your links may give me some extra facts, and so i will still read them, but i already know the basics of all of it as i have done my own studying. it is a red herring. none of it is pertinent to what occurred on 9/11. it is completely ludicrous to even assume the towers were knocked down by Bush & co. and don't even try to bring up WTC7 because i will tear that argument to shreds.
Quote (howsyourmom)
the CIA (NASA too) was created by Nazis extradited by the US (but not tried) from Germany in Project Paperclip.
Operation Paperclip was a government operation in which German scientists who had been forced into working for the Nazi's would be allowed to come to America to continue their scientific careers on the condition that they would denounce Nazism. Truman, who i consider to be one of America's worst presidents ever, actually expressed that the he wanted to assure that no Nazi's would be accepted. however, for such scientists as Wernher von Braun, Arthur Rudolph and Hubertus Strughold, their histories were forged and carried in envelopes held together by paperclips, thus giving the operation it's name. this is in no way pertinent to any nationwide conspiracy of any kind though and is but another red herring on your part.
Quote (howsyourmom)
and the second link you posted eboyd only reinforces the theory of it being setup because how can you completely deny it but at the same time admit how heavily they benefit from the "war on terror".
easy. i benefited from the skatepark down the street when i was a kid because it gave me a place to skate without getting in trouble. does that necessarily mean that i was involved in the process of getting it put there? it just so happens in this circumstance i was, but i have other friends that benefited and weren't involved at all even though they lived nearby before the skatepark was erected and began going there as soon as it opened. i know what you might say; "but you weren't a figure of authority." you're absolutely right. FDR benefited from Pearl Harbor. was he in collusion with the Japanese? did he order the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor?
Quote (howsyourmom)
and how did the "hunt for osama" in afghanistan turn into a war in iraq? is osama even relevant anymore?
did i ever argue for that? i'm an anarchist and someone who believes strongly in facts, evidence and rationality, not a patriotic republican. to act as though Dubya didn't take advantage of the sudden power boost he had gotten from 9/11 in order to fulfill his own agenda is to turn a blind eye on obvious logic and hard facts.
Quote (howsyourmom)
with all the cave bombs, predators, dominators etc. he should without a doubt in my mind be dead IF they were consistently hunting him. especially considering they often know his general whereabouts but can never seem to actually find him.
i can't pass judgment on this. though i have friends in the military, they cannot actually disclose much of the information that they are told even to their closest friends. the actual strategy behind us fighting there is what is in question. i've never been there, nor have a ever strategized a war before, so i choose to suspend judgment on this specific issue as i just don't have enough information or expertise to pass judgment. maybe there are factors neither of us know that are preventing us from finding him. maybe not. if there aren't any such factors then i totally agree that we should have found him long ago. this still doesn't have any bearing on the occurrences of 9/11.
Quote (howsyourmom)
with recently disclosed information from WW2 you see how the government actually works. the fact that it usually takes like 30-40 years to disclose important confidential documents makes it lose so much relevance causing people to tend to ignore it. don't ever trust your government, they've already drafted twice and forcibly sent tonnes of their own to their death, with that alone how could you? i'm not dale gribble, most of this post has been confirmed by the US government itself (excluding wtc setup obviously).
you will see that i completely agree with this conclusion from the rest of my post above. i'm skeptical of anything that doesn't have hard facts backing it. it just so happens that, while what the media feeds us is hogwash, much of the crap that you hear on a daily basis from such folks as our friend here Alex Jones is just as crass as the bullshit it is in opposition to. we need to focus on real issues. our education system is terrible and we need to completely rethink our philosophy on education itself. capitalism is allowing big business to abscond enough money to keep a large portion of society on the streets. the hierarchical structure of society is perpetuating the abuse of power that Lord Acton spoke of and is keeping the common person in a position of subordination to an apparent superior. due to the lack of abundance of collectives, as our current society makes it quite difficult for such a business to exist, people are subject to wage slavery, working all day just so that they can barely pay the rent and hopefully pay for groceries.
Quote (howsyourmom)
and he has exposed a number of things ranging from the bohemian grove
ooooh! he filmed rich people practicing strange religious ceremonies! OMG someone alert the world police!
please. Catholics eat Jesus cookies that they truly believe to be the flesh of Jesus, meaning that they are willing to partake in cannibalism. many Christians speak Glossolalia (speaking in tongues) which, to any sane person, is gibberish, equivalent to scat-rapping, but to a deeply religious person it is the language of God. there's no proof of a conspiracy in the Bohemian Grove. Jones is a fraud, plain and simple. the few truths he has revealed i have praised him for. i gave him credit for "The Obama Deception" because, while there was definitely conspiracy theory involved, it was far less blatant his usual and he did provide useful information. also, i might add, KRS-One's parts were quite insightful.
so in short, the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim. provide actual EVIDENCE that DIRECTLY links Bush to 9/11 (not "well he funded Osama 20-30+ years prior" or "well, he gained a lot from 9/11") and i will consider the evidence. until then, yours is an illogical position to hold, though not impossible.
