same shit also rap definitely emerged from hip hop. even if they are technically different entities now in your opinion (i dont think there different personally) rap definitely grew from hip hop. without hip hop there'd be no rap.

so define rapper. an MC who doesnt do hip hop? im not sure i follow

Added (18/Nov/10, 4:31 PM)
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Not sure if I answered your question, too quick off track.
A rapper is not an MC who doesn't do hip hop. MC bottoms in rapper.
A rapper's definition is simple and obvious, someone who raps. An MC is a rapper that does hip hop.

Any objections?

hmm thats actually a pretty good way of looking at it, i can agree with this because there are always people who rap but they do it in other types of music so that would make them a rapper not an MC

i'll write my thoughts soon i've just been really busy atm

i really think its just lines in the sand and its just BS. an mc is a rapper? so technically they are both the same? what if a 'rapper' does one song in 'hip hop' can he call himself an MC?

from wiki-

"Since its emergence in the South Bronx, Hip-hop culture has spread around the world.[6] Hip-hop music first emerged with disc jockeys creating rhythmic beats by looping breaks (small portions of songs emphasizing a percussive pattern) on two turntables, more commonly referred to as sampling. This was later accompanied by "rap", a rhythmic style of chanting or poetry presented in 16 bar measures or time frames, and beatboxing, a vocal technique mainly used to imitate percussive elements of the music and various technical effects of hip hop DJ's. An original form of dancing and particular styles of dress arose among fans of this new music. These elements experienced considerable refinement and development over the course of the history of the culture."

Its evolved (or devolved depending on how you see it) but technically its still hip hop in my opinion and MC and rapper are just synonyms for the same title

i see Greens point that an mc is a rapper that is part of the hip hop culture, i'm not sure if i'm interpreting him right but what i see is that you have people who do rap but aren't really doing it in the culture of hip hop, eg. zach de la rocha raps for rage against the machine, but rage against the machine do not make hip hop music, they make nu-metal music, fergie sometimes raps but she doesn't make hip hop either, she makes pop music even when she is rapping, Mike Shinoda raps for Linkin Park but Linkin Park are not hip hop. so looking at it this way i'd say they weren't mc's but rather they were rappers

however i'm starting to think that saying things like "jay-z is a rapper not an emcee" or "kanye west is a rapper not a real emcee" i'm starting to think this is based on nothing but bias, people don't even judge it by the standards they say they do. people like krs claim "rappers spit rhymes that are mostly illegal, emcees spit rhymes to uplift their people", fans of krs often quote this very line of his to show the difference however i think this appears to be based on nothing but bias because these same people will tell you they're fans of wu-tang, nas, jedi mind tricks etc, these guys spit rhymes that are mostly illegal all the time. yet these same fans will simply brush it aside and still consider them emcees anyway? they don't even judge them by the standard krs tries to claim is the standard. and worst of all KRS doesn't even judge it by his own standard, there is a video on youtube of krs claiming lil wayne is the greatest emcee of all time, krs even reiterates his point by purposely saying "emcee" not rapper, yet if you listen to lil waynes music you clearly see it goes against the standards of a real emcee krs tries to impose. krs even praises 50 cent, yet in the same video says kanye west is not hip hop because he wears skinny jeans???? wtf??? kanye isn't hip hop yet 50 cent is??? this is what makes me believe its mostly based on bias

of course people like krs are aware of this, so they've made a rule, "an emcee can be a rapper but a rapper can never be an emcee", idk this just doesn't really make sense to me, if a rapper can't be an emcee then why can an emcee go from being an emcee to being a rapper??? shouldn't it work both ways??? isn't it bias that you will give an "emcee" a free pass on being an ignorant or non concious "rapper" but you won't for a rapper??

Once again i am not trying to defend some of these 'rappers' cus i do not like a lot of the stuff thats out there. but i do see a lot of people using that mc/rapper as a brand to mark there favorites and brand there most hated.

which rappers are you talking about? what do you mean by your definition of rappers? if you look at some "rappers" they're mostly lip syncing, they mostly just do the adlibs live with about 30 people on stage doing it with them and most of the shit is coming from the speakers, this is what Redman was talking about here when Redman and Method Man explained what they thought was the difference, thats why in number 2 i made sure to say MC's move the crowd with their rhymes

here's Redman and Meth explaining what they think the difference is: