yeah him i always forget his name and man i checked El Salvadorian recent history man shit is fucked up there why did the US support death squads ?? i mean one of the death squads killed Romero

your godless civilization point is also out of date as we are in a completly different and uncomparable chapter of human history

this is the point religion is out dated as both a set of moral beliefs and laws to govern society, yes it shaped the movement of the west before the technology age but to stay in an old fashioned mindset is absurd, we have to change and grow as a race not stay with old fashioned beliefs, like slavery was once considered acceptable and parts of the bible say having a slave is ok - nowadays is bullshit

The World Is Yours

don't go there man you called me once a liberal and i didn't said nothing but stop this shit man if you think Conservatives are better ok but don't go like that cause ain't a liberal nor a conservative you always jump to conclusions

christian marriage is between a man and a woman as you said, but adulterers who were condemed in the bible as much like gay people can have a christian marriage? its a double standered man

The World Is Yours

well people can repent from their sins, or have a civil union if they aren't christians.

well i don't see anyone stoning or killing gay people either, unless your talking about those muslim extremists who would probably stone both.

i just dont get why the church is so opposed to gay marriage, it doesnt effect them and its not gonna lead to the downfall of society. if adulterers can get married why cant christians let go of the few remaining morals left that are bad and let gay people marry too?

The World Is Yours

I have a question. What is your reason for feeling gay marriage is immoral? And please don't come with "the bible says so" because I know that you are SOOO much smarter than that and can come up with 20 more logical and reasonable reasons. Let me start by addressing arguments I've heard (remember, I live in Cali so this affected me directly and I was extensively involved in this argument with people at school):

1. Gay people cannot procreate and the purpose of marriage is procreation.

Rebuttle: by this logic, sterile couples who are straight should not be allowed to marry either. Do you feel that is right? We give out marriage liscenses, EVEN IN CHURCH, to sterile couples everyday.

2. Being gay is a choice. They should simply choose not to be gay.

Rebuttle: that means being straight would have to be a choice too. This response = null and void.

3. Churches will be forced to hold gay marriage ceremonies which is against their beliefs.

Rebuttle: gay marriage is legal in Massachussets and has been for several years and was legal in California for a short period. In this time, in both states,thousands of gay marriage ceremonies have been performed, many of which are still recognized today. Out of the thousands of gay marriage ceremonies that have commenced, not a single ceremony has taken place in a church (and if one has it was because there was a church whose followers were radicals) and it is unlikely one ever will unless you find a liberal church that is willing to do it and that is unlikely.

4. This is the most logical response and the hardest to refute, but is still very much a matter of opinion and quite illogical: gay marriage will be forced down the throats of our children in schools.

Rebuttle: though there are a select few instances of this occuring, like the lesbian kindergarten teacher turning her gay marriage into a school field trip, this is quite extreme thought. What are schools likely to teach kids about gay marriage anyways? The extent of what they are legally obliged to teach is that gay people are allowed to get married too now. Anything more than that could and should put a teacher at risk because it is wrong to teach any further. That is the parents' job to teach. If a teacher went further teaching straight marriage that would be equally wrong. If a teacher ever goes further with that with your child, I hope you would complain and get that teacher in big trouble. Taking your students to your wedding, whether it be gay, straight, interspecies, whatever, is wrong to begin with.

5. We give gay people the option of civil unions. Why can't they accept those?

Rebuttle: think about this. What if I said "there's a new law. Native Americans are no longer allowed to marry. We only accept the definition of a marriage between a white man and a white woman. Native Americans are allowed to have a similar thing called a civil union, which is very close to the same thing as marriage, but it doesn't make the couple legal kin like marriage does."? Would you be upset? Would you be thinking "damn it, the Andrew Jackson days are back!"? A woman my dad met, a lesbian, told my dad (who actually still voted yes on prop. 8) a story. She was in a 20+ year civil union with her long time lover. She one day came home to her sweetheart to find her dead of a heart attack. Not only was she terribly distraught because... well, wouldn't you be after your significant other of 20+ years was lying on the floor cold and dead right in front of your eyes? She also was not allowed to sign any signatures for her now deceased partner because she wasn't legally her spouse. She had to wait for her domestic partner's brother to drive 200 miles to sign everything for her. What a terrible situation would that be? And that is what you will get as a result of letting gays only have a domestic partnership.

So if you want to refute any of my rebuttles or bring another original argument to the table, please feel free to do so and I will, in a civil and respectful manner, read your comment with an open mind and reply appropriately.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

As for gay men, well.. It's to keep penises cleaner, because let's face it, nobody wants to shower with someone who's got doo-doo on their penis.

(You had all the reasonable reasons covered so I figured I'd see if I could make a couple of bs ones)

Apart from that, I believe in god and whether somebody tells me "Come on man, that's so old like wtf they were like doin' it in the middle ages" doesn't mean shit to me.

As for you being religious, no one is condemning or saying anything to you about it. EmSeed is religious, but he sees god in the same way as William Blake did. To him, as far as I know, Christianity is simply a relationship between him and God. Don't even worry about that. We are only questioning people who push religious doctrine on others as the only possible set of moral standards for any human to live by and so use that to push this idea of theocracy. Sure, religion is great when it comes to helping people live morally good lifestyles (although I question some religious morals) but 1) it isn't the only way to set morals for people and 2) whether it would have happened under atheism or not, under theocratic reign the crusades occured. I don't feel like going to jail for what I believe either and I would fight against it with everything I have. Theocracy puts too much power into the hands of one group that is, in these days, not as widely agreed with as it was and a lot of people would be disgruntled because they would be forced to practice faith in something they disagree with. And you can tell me till you are blue in the face that under a theocracy I won't be forced to do anything but live morally correct, but it isn't up to you, it's up to that piece of shit pope Jean Paul who is worse than President Bush and, if up to him, all atheists would likely be burnt at the stake along with gays, adulterers and all criminals, petty or career. OK, this may be an exaggeration, but it isn't as far off as you think.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

its like hip hop - we can stay in the golden age mindset or we can move on

The World Is Yours

my argument is that "Christian Marriages" are for christians, "hindu marriages are for hindu's, muslim marriages are for muslims, i thought civil union was like a secular marriage, so i have no problem with a gay marriage as long as its not a christian type of marriage coz christian marriages are for christians.

lol that's true, but maybe not all of them use dildo's. maybe they use their tongue or finger's lol ew, that's yuck when you realise that almost all lesbian's are actually quite ugly lol porn is so misleading.