Redskins - Page 2

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 12:31 PM | Message # 16

Heads

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if you look in the dictionary redskins and some other names given to these teams are racial slurs it's not fair to continue using them while we don't use black racial slurs and Jewish racial slurs why wouldn't we stop whit the Native ones ?? at least give them this "privilege" yaal raped their land and wiped almost all their civilization and now e acting like that come on

11thPlague

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 1:27 PM | Message # 17

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Quote (Menace)

raped their land and wiped almost all their civilization

Thats happened ALOT through out the worlds history they are not the only ones.

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 2:03 PM | Message # 18

Heads

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I remember when I was in high school we played against a team called the Burroughs High School Indians and there was a big issue over this back then. They were planning on changing the names of all of the teams with Indian related mascots in high schools throughout Southern California. Idk what happened to that. Seriously though, every mascot is a charicature. That is just how it works. The only way to make that stop is start naming teams after innanimate objects. We can change the Pittsburgh Steelers to the Pittsburgh Anvils, The Dallas Cowboys to the Dallas Lassos, etc. A few teams are OK. We have the Red Sox and White Sox, so those are fine (though I'm sure they symbolize something I'm not picking up on as well) but everything else has to go. Lol! Seriously, if we argue for this next we need to fight for animal rights (the Chicago Bears and Cubs make a charicature out of Bears and are against wildlife rights and must go now! angry

) and all other people's rights. The USC Trojans represent warriors from a long time ago and are a charicature of them. That name needs to go too. It could also be used as a Greek stereotype, so we need to get rid of it.

In all serious now, I understand that "Redskins" needs to go. That's terrible (plus I'm a Cowboys fan so I'd LOVE to see my most hated team in the NFL lose it's name lol ). However, the rest are not racial slurs, they are charicatures, just like everything else is. I'm part Native American myself (Cherokee) as well as Nordic and about a thousand other things that have mascots fashioned after them so I should be upset with the entire sports industry but I'm not. Now I could understand if a team was named the New Orleans Niggers or the Tennessee Pickaninnys or on the other side of the coin, the Alabama Honkeys or the Arkansas Crackers, which is why I am in total agreement with the Redskins, but teams like the Cleveland Indians or the Kansas City Chiefs could have just as easily been the Cleveland Whites or the Kansas City Monarchs, or would you prefer Cleveland Natives? I understand if you want them to call them by the proper name. In that case, the Cleveland Caucasians could have just as easily fit and I could give a shit. Seriously, you ask to have a name changed in one sport you need to have all of them changed because the only way to not piss people off is if you make them all named after inannimate objects, because no matter what, over time someone is going to complain.

erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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Uncharted

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 3:25 PM | Message # 19

Watchers

[quote=eboyd]the Chicago Bears and Cubs make a charicature out of Bears and are against wildlife rights and must go now! [/quote]
FUCK PETA

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 3:39 PM | Message # 20

Heads

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LOL! I played a prank on my friend one time. He's a hunter and he goes hunting like once a month for deer, coyote, birds, etc. and he is very overweight. I called PETA and left a message as "Greg Byrum" (my friend's name) and gave them his number and told them I wanted to get involved in the "Save The Whales" program. He was at Coco's (a restaurant chain) with his dad (also a hunter) and they called him. He told me he answered the phone and they said "hello Greg, this is PETA. We've been told you want to get involved in our program." (Unfortunately they never mentioned save the whales. LMAO! That would have been HILARIOUS!) He says he responded saying "who is PETA?" and they told him they were an animal rights organization. He said that this must be a practical joke because he's a hunter and he hung up and the second he hung up the phone he and his dad both said "Erik" simultaneously. LMFAO! lol

he called me like 2 minutes later and asked if I called PETA and I nearly pissed my pants laughing haha! lol

erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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Furious_Pryme

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 4:04 PM | Message # 21

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Damn never knew how bad saying redskin is...
I dont hear it much in Australia and Australia has alot
of things people could see as been racist like "Spics and specs"(tv show)
"COON" (type of cheese), Redskins(Lollys..for the people who dont know what that is
a lolly mean Candy),
you may also get these in the USA etc etc. before my town's football team
was the Ghost they was the Pale faces..even tho none of this holds any efx on me
i just thought id share Australia's Racism with you.

ilikebacon3000

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 4:35 PM | Message # 22

Emcees

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Quote (Furious_Pryme)

Spics and specs

What the fuck is going on over there?

Haha and I still cant agree with Erik anymore.... Although the indian part is always thrown in, I will agree with pensmoke.

Life's a bitch and I'm just along for the ride.

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 4:43 PM | Message # 23

Heads

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Pen, that FAQ's author's responses were full of fallacies, but I still see where you are coming from. I was going to agree with you before, but I thought critically about it and realized that there is more to it. For one, most people, apparently including yourself, don't realize that native Irish people live tribally as well. There are MANY marginalized European peoples, many of which live tribally and are stereotyped against. No, it does not happen as en masse as it does with Native Americans, but it does occur. Does the lesser frequency or degree of these occurences make them less relevant? Some may say yes, but I disagree. Oppression is oppression whether it comes in the form of words or physical abuse. Yes, Indians/Native Americans went through TERRIBLE things and are stereoptyped against on a daily basis, but to count out other groups that are also stereoptyped against in sports just because they were given these said mascots with a different story behind them doesn't make the argument that "if we get rid of the Indian we must get rid of the rest of them" any less relevant. Details can be crammed into any of the others as well to give them equal weight in argument, but people do not defend those groups as stringently as they do Native Americans. I'm not saying that it is OK, but maybe we truly should get rid of these names. Who knows what is right. There is no such thing as morally wrong and right. Words are just symbols. It is what meaning we choose to give them that makes them powerful and we can just as easily take the power away from these words if we can simply realize this as a whole.

And btw, if you think for a second animal rights activists wouldn't do exactly the same because of sports teams as Indians have just because they haven't yet and just throw that argument out the window, you have obviously never met an animal rights activist. Lol!

One more thing. Pen, you know me. I'm not the type to make some shit up for the sake of winning an argument. I truly am, according to my father, part Cherokee. I don't have a whole lot of Cherokee in me, considering I'm mixed with about 1,000 other things, but I definitely am and besides, from the sound of what you have told me you are pretty mixed as well (probably not nearly as much as I am though). And yes, Cherokee is a stereotypical Indian tribe, but that doesn't change the fact that I am part Cherokee. It isn't really part of any argument though. Just thought I'd throw it out there because as the article said, there are some legitimately Indian people who could care less, so it would hold no weight if I used it in an argument anyways.

erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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ThaScience

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 4:59 PM | Message # 24

OGs

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this is all news to me.. thnks for the info

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 5:23 PM | Message # 25

Heads

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some minorities are privileged some are not end of the deal if you want justice eliminate them all if you play on favoritism then this will exist

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 5:26 PM | Message # 26

Heads

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Leonard Peltier is still in prison for nothing that is Native news we need to support that guy and spread the word

Date: Tuesday, 02/Jun/09, 5:32 PM | Message # 27

Heads

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While there are MANY things that people perceive as fallacies (usually idiots who try to make themselves look smart by using terms like "fallacy") that are really just issues of something not agreeing with their perspective, there are REAL fallacies out there that get pinpointed by people who know what they are talking about. The people who use these fake fallacy claims in arguments are called "pseudo-intellectuals." Anyone who has taken a logic or philosophy class (and fully understood what they studied) could read that article and pull out a plethora of ad hominems, red herrings, plays on emotion, etc. Not to say that none of the article is valid though. One, or even a few fallacies don't negate an entire argument (at least not usually), just the part of the argument that was fallacious. I do not think you are understanding my stance here. Let me express myself more clearly. While I feel that Native American culture and heritage is, in fact being mocked by these symbols and they get the brunt of this mockery, I also recognize that many other cultures/heritages/living beings, albeit to a lesser degree, are being mocked as well. I am not using that as an argument against having these names and symbols removed, but rather saying that if they must be removed for one it is hypocrisy not to remove the other as well because they all have a similar historical relevance and they serve as similar devices. Just because Scandinavians do not celebrate their viking heritage does not mean that they do not feel mocked by the symbols used for the Minnesota Vikings football team. Now, on the question of whether it is right or wrong to portray a culture on symbolically through a sports team using charicatures I suspend judgment because I do not believe in moral objectivity.

erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0