Argentinian Worker's Self-Management Wins Legal Battles!
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eboyd |
Date: Thursday, 12/Nov/09, 11:04 AM | Message # 1 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Menace, did you hear about this? In August the textile company Zanon won a legal battle to become a legitimate self-managed business! Unfortunately workers at other companies are being evicted as well, but nevertheless, this legitimizes self-management. Here's the article: http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/2052/32/
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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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Menace |
Date: Thursday, 12/Nov/09, 12:33 PM | Message # 2 |
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Posts: 6764
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yeah i heard that I'm extremely happy for the workers of Zanon in these times of economic instability being a cooperative saves lives and the legitimization of self managed businesses is not something new there is even a international worker cooperative celebration day recognized by the UN for example let me give you 2 less known facts about worker cooperatives : Over 800 million people are members of a co-operative. Co-operatives provide 100 million jobs worldwide, 20% more than multinational enterprises. check this website for more info also if this kind of business expands to a major degree the road to Mutualism is not far and subsequently if Mutualism is achieved then anarchism becomes more tangible . http://www.ica.coop/al-ica/
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eboyd |
Date: Thursday, 12/Nov/09, 3:35 PM | Message # 3 |
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Posts: 13145
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Ok, thanks, and btw, I've been trying to find info on the actual inner-workings of such a business, like how marketing is achieved and how other specialized jobs get taken care of in a cooperative circumstance and how they go about hiring workers to do a specialized job that only someone with an education to do so can do effectively while still holding up to their standard of "autogestiòn". Do you have any insight into this? Any sources of info regarding this?
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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Menace |
Date: Thursday, 12/Nov/09, 4:17 PM | Message # 4 |
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Posts: 6764
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Quote (eboyd) Ok, thanks, and btw, I've been trying to find info on the actual inner-workings of such a business, like how marketing is achieved and how other specialized jobs get taken care of in a cooperative circumstance and how they go about hiring workers to do a specialized job that only someone with an education to do so can do effectively while still holding up to their standard of "autogestiòn". Do you have any insight into this? Any sources of info regarding this? Big marketing is not actually needed in such businesses because such businesses are very community based and community oriented such businesses are in face to face contact whit their customers take for example Zanon the whole community backed them up . Usually some worker cooperatives work whit Consumers' cooperatives so the problem of marketing is solved there. Second cooperatives usually access capitals markets trough the "Subordinated Financial Contributions" act and such similar acts but here it depends on the region and legislature in some areas they don't give collective access to capitals markets in some areas they don't even give collective loans . Third specialists are part of the assembly of the workplace, just like other workers. They can and have to be listened to, like anyone else, and their expert advice included in the decision making process. Anarchists do not reject the idea of expertise nor the rational authority associated with it. And, just to state the obvious, self-management does not imply that the mass of workers decide on the application of specialized tasks. Self-management implies the autonomy of those who do the work as well as collective decision making on collective issues. For example, in a self-managed hospital the cleaning staff would not have a say in the doctors' treatment of patients just as the doctors would not tell the cleaners how to do their work (of course, it is likely that an anarchist society will not have people whose work is simply to clean and nothing else, we just use this as an example people will understand). All members of a cooperative would have a say in what happens in the workplace as it affects them collectively, but individual workers and groups of workers would manage their own activity within that collective. Specialized work as usual work is hired on a collective basis it's not different. New workers are brought into the workplace when the current workers agree more people are needed . more on the inner-workings of this concept read here : http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secI3.html#seci32 and here ( this is the article i wrote and previously posted here on the website zabalaza a south African anarchist federation published it in their weekly periodical they've added some pics and some famous example of self management too ) http://zinelibrary.info/files/nobosses_0.pdf
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Menace |
Date: Thursday, 12/Nov/09, 8:25 PM | Message # 5 |
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Posts: 6764
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Remuneration according to effort and sacrifice : You get compensated for how hard you work (defined in terms of duration, intensity, onerousness) and what you give up to do it -- not for property, bargaining power, or talent. This is decided in assemblies collectively by all the workforce . In your case yes an engineer would be paid more . But cooperatives are living entities organic units these units not only produce they EDUCATE and TRAIN . In general in a cooperative everyone has basic knowledge of different fields because "all-round" (or integral) education is practiced in such businesses that's why cooperatives don't need artificial management to manage their workplaces . Quote (eboyd) f worker's self management doesn't provide that specialized workers are granted higher pay, what incentives are given instead to assure that 1. the worker remains at that business, and 2. the worker does his/her job to the best of their ability? This is a capitalist argument it's called the " profit motive " which is the biggest fallacious argument capitalists came whit plus high production doesn't necessarily equate high wages because production is centralized if its decentralized then capital goes directly to the workers by that wages raise . In general cooperatives provide very high wages because capital is at their disposal and the economic effects of the market doesn't touch them . Plus being a cooperative has a few advantages. With the control of their own work and workplaces ensured, all working people can express their abilities to the full. This will see an explosion of creativity and initiative statistics show us this fact. Cooperatives rarely go bankrupt this business model has the tendency to be hereditary not in the literally sense but economically so people have SAFE JOBS ( PS everyone searches for safe jobs ) . Working hours are more humane and more flexible in some cases working hours can be cut short very severely because workers balance production whit wages while in a capitalist business workers do high production for less wage so inherently they have more working hours and less wages here they have a balanced program . So i think i made my case why should workers remain at such business but this is just within capitalism in anarchism it goes to another level other forms of organization appear etc. i can babble all day LOL i recommend a book called No Contest: The Case Against Competition by Alfie Kohn . The profit motive is taken care of there i can babble about it if you want tough lol
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eboyd |
Date: Friday, 13/Nov/09, 0:59 AM | Message # 6 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Thanks and thanks for the recommendation. That covered my unsure points about self-management. I believe in it as being the best system to start with, but anyone who wants to be unbiased and have sound views needs to see what he/she thinks may be faults in their beliefs and fix them as they can and if they can't, think of a new line of thinking.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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Menace |
Date: Friday, 13/Nov/09, 10:57 AM | Message # 7 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (eboyd) but anyone who wants to be unbiased and have sound views needs to see what he/she thinks may be faults in their beliefs and fix them as they can and if they can't, think of a new line of thinking. yes i understand that its my pleasure to explain such things and by the way i want to add something else about payment . Some self managed businesses decide in assemblies if they will pay everyone the same wages or pay everyone based on renumeration and effort for example Zanon pays everyone the same wage and still everyone is happy because they have pretty high wages and the last thing because EVERYONE agreed on this . Cooperatives are autonomous producing units i can't speculate that all cooperatives use the renumeration and effort idea because cooperatives decide themselves how they will get paid. Zanon pays the same wages to everyone , Mondragon pays based on remuneration according to effort and sacrifice , it depends . Cooperatives are large based family like businesses so many people don't mind to be paid the same wage . The experience to work in such business is great .
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Menace |
Date: Saturday, 21/Nov/09, 5:06 PM | Message # 8 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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By the way Erik , you saw Michael Moore's " Capitalism A Love Story " ? he briefly showed an alternative to capitalism he advocated worker-run workplaces its good to have a mainstream voice advocating such anarchist alternatives
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eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 2:08 AM | Message # 9 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (Menace) By the way Erik , you saw Michael Moore's " Capitalism A Love Story " ? he briefly showed an alternative to capitalism he advocated worker-run workplaces its good to have a mainstream voice advocating such anarchist alternatives i typically avoid documentaries made by douchebags but if you recommend it i will go ahead and check it out 
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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Menace |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 7:17 AM | Message # 10 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (eboyd) i typically avoid documentaries made by douchebags but if you recommend it i will go ahead and check it out LOL yeah i know but this documentary is pretty good check a review of it here http://workersolidarity.org/?p=496
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J-Breakz |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 5:29 PM | Message # 11 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (eboyd) i typically avoid documentaries made by douchebags but if you recommend it i will go ahead and check it out atleast we can agree on something lol
livin life like some cheesy movie
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eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 5:34 PM | Message # 12 |
Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (J-Breakz) atleast we can agree on something lol 
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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Menace |
Date: Sunday, 22/Nov/09, 5:37 PM | Message # 13 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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i don't like Michael Moore either i always criticized the liberal "left" . Michael Moore is a sensationalist as Pat Condell which i don't like either .This documentary got my attention just because it didn't rely on the same outdated Marxist critique on economic arrangements and in the same time the overused liberal open "mindness" critique of society.
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