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Forum moderator: El_Matador, ThaScience, s0dr2  
Cooperatives/Collectives in the US
eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 1:15 PM | Message # 1

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i was noticing the striking similarities of a select few businesses around the US to that of worker's self-management and i decided to study these businesses in detail. i will present my notes to you so that you can do your own studying and comment on what you think of their business structures, but first i will start by explaining in short, all the different types of cooperatives:

Worker Co-op - a businesses run and owned by the workers that may or may not have a flat (non-hierarchal) structure.

Collective - a form of Worker Co-op that has a flat structure.

Consumer Co-op - a business owned by members who shop from them and are encouraged to attend annual meetings in which they are allowed to give their opinion on any changes for the business. a large scale example of this form of co-op is REI, the mountaineering equipment store.

Supplier Co-op - a business owned by the people that supply them with their goods. a large scale example of this is Ace Hardware.

Producer Co-op - mostly found in the agriculture industry. producer co-ops are owned by the people who produce the products sold by the cooperative.

co-ops are often, though not exclusively, watched over by co-op unions.

i am particularly interested (in specific order from most to least interest) in specific types of non-flat Worker Co-ops such as Rainbow Grocery which, in many ways, resembles anarcho-syndicalism (i feel it is the only way to follow this business model and expand into a larger business), and collectives, which make for great small businesses. i am not particularly interested in consumer, supplier or producer co-ops because my biggest interest is dissolving hierarchy and that seems to be of little concern for these forms of cooperatives.

here are my notes:

Worker Co-ops:

Rainbow Grocery (SF)

http://www.rainbowgrocery.org/

Other Avenues

http://www.otheravenues.coop

Collectives:

Inkworks Press

http://www.inkworkspress.org

http://www.geo.coop/node/363

Missing Link Bikes

http://www.missinglink.org

Consumer Co-ops:

REI

http://www.rei.com

Rainbow Whole Foods (MS)

http://www.rainbowcoop.org/

Supplier Co-ops:

Ace Hardware

http://www.acehardware.com

Cooperative Unions:

People's Food System

http://foundsf.org/index.php?title=People%27s_Food_System

International Cooperative Alliance

http://www.ica.coop/al-ica/

Coop America (now Green America)

http://www.greenamericatoday.org/

________________________________________

From Rainbow Grocery in San Francisco's Site:

Information From Missing Link Bike Shop's Site:



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eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 1:32 PM | Message # 2

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It's nice to see, but under capitalism if they get too big they will be crushed eventually, it makes me sad :(
Only one thing to do...REVOLT! Abolish hiearchy, abolish power, abolish greed!

for being within the capitalist power structure these businesses are doing quite well. there are a multitude of worker co-ops and collectives in the Bay Area alone and Rainbow Grocery, in particular, has over 200 workers with full benefits that get paid good money and the prices remain low. according to the ICA there are 800 million people represented by co-ops worldwide. it's growing steadily and many are doing exceptionally well even in capitalist countries whose economies clash with their style of business.


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eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 1:52 PM | Message # 3

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I'm glad to see at least some of us know how to beat the system without getting beat in retalliation...but I'd still feel a little bit more comfortable if it were more plentiful.

in due time, my friend. in due time.


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eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 1:57 PM | Message # 4

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You do know it won't just happen spontaneuosly (spelling? %) ) though, yes?

of course, but even with effort it won't happen overnight. that is why i am using my early adult years to study so that i can be effective later and when the time comes we can defeat them with our expertise that we gained, in part, by studying.


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eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 2:00 PM | Message # 5

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Bookworms for the future of anarchy LMAO

would you rather it be people like this?:

:D


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eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 2:10 PM | Message # 6

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LMFAO! Menace is on. hmmm..... i wonder why he hasn't commented yet.

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Menace Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 2:15 PM | Message # 7

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It's nice to see, but under capitalism if they get too big they will be crushed eventually, it makes me sad

Not really Mondragon still exists and still strives whit the same business model alongside millions even billions of such examples trough out the world . Adopting a Mutualist approach could be deemed as " reformist " by hard line anarchists but the old anarchist ways of insurrection and propaganda of the deed are long gone the world changed we must go back to our working class roots form revolutionary labor unions , workers cooperatives , workers councils , organizational platforms etc. Revolting whit out the support of the working class whit out the support of the masses is suicidal. Whit out a revolutionary labor union as the CNT-FAI the people in Spain wouldn't revolt and whit out the support of the masses of Spain the CNT-FAI wouldn't work. Despite the common stereotype anarchists have tons of ways of organization we are not disorganized as they call us we must show them the true side of our ideas .

Quote (eboyd)
Worker Co-op - a businesses run and owned by the workers that may or may not have a flat (non-hierarchal) structure.

Thats the usual misconception. Workers cooperatives as they were envisioned by Sam Dolgoff , Robert Owen , Mikhail Bakunin etc. are NON-HIERARCHICAL and DEMOCRATICALLY OWNED BY THEIR WORKERS . The original concept as intended by anarchists which actually created this concept is NON-HIERARCHICAL binded trough free agreement and free association and democratically controlled by the workers. This concept of workers coop was after WW2 cooped by capitalists and turned in a completely different way you might heard of terms such as "participation," "democratization," "co-determination," "consensus," "empowerment" etc. Capitalists so an opportunity in this to boost their profits trough giving the workers freedom because they saw how workers become more economically efficient when they have creative control in their workplace but while the workplace is "owned" by the workers in one way or another the capital of the entire workplace is actually owned by a pair of outside investors yes the workers control their workplaces but workers don't own the actual capital of the workplace that's the difference between our model and their model. For example all businesses that are part of the International Cooperative Alliance are as you might call " collectives ".

Quote (eboyd)
From Rainbow Grocery in San Francisco's Site:

This is what i was talking about a merger of quasi capitalist quasi anarchist organizational model the " The Board of Directors " shouldn't even exist . The Board of Directors is invested whit too much power here i mean we don't need a board of directors to take care of the day to day policies working groups can do that . Delegates have no decision making power over no one delegates from various working groups and coordinating committees meet up for exchange of information and policies that are coming from below from working groups and coordinating committees these informations and policies are then sent below by delegates and decided collectively by these various working groups and coordinating committees which these delegates came from .


Menace Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 2:31 PM | Message # 8

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Naturally, but in the U.S. here most of the working classes are either idiots that trust in idiots like Obama administration or the right. I don't know if we have a chance here :( At least you got some help where you at

They are idiots because as Rosa Luxembourg said they are not politically nor socially trained for example in the 20's the American working class in front whit revolutionary labor unions as the Industrial Workers Of The World known in popular culture as the " Wobblies" nearly brought the US in brick of social revolution they were ultimately decimated by brutal force by the US government the same in the 60's . When hard line organizations rise people rise whit them the lack of such organizations is the reason why the American working class has no class consciousness.


eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 2:33 PM | Message # 9

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Thats the usual misconception. Workers cooperatives as they were envisioned by Sam Dolgoff , Robert Owen , Mikhail Bakunin etc. are NON-HIERARCHICAL and DEMOCRATICALLY OWNED BY THEIR WORKERS .

yes, but as the capitalists have taken part in this concept as well they have created their own forms of hierarchal cooperatives and, unfortunately, i cannot leave them out if we are discussing co-ops.

Quote (Menace)
Capitalists so an opportunity in this to boost their profits trough giving the workers freedom because they saw how workers become more economically efficient when they have creative control in their workplace but while the workplace is "owned" by the workers in one way or another the capital of the entire workplace is actually owned by a pair of outside investors yes the workers control their workplaces but workers don't own the actual capital of the workplace that's the difference between our model and their model. For example all businesses that are part of the International Cooperative Alliance are as you might call " collectives ".

yes, and that is why i am only interested in those forms of co-ops.

Quote (Menace)
This is what i was talking about a merger of quasi capitalist quasi anarchist organizational model the " The Board of Directors " shouldn't even exist . The Board of Directors is invested whit too much power here i mean we don't need a board of directors to take care of the day to day policies working groups can do that . Delegates have no decision making power over no one delegates from various working groups and coordinating committees meet up for exchange of information and policies that are coming from below from working groups and coordinating committees these informations and policies are then sent below by delegates and decided collectively by these various working groups and coordinating committees which these delegates came from .

i think you are misunderstanding. i agree that more power should be solely given to the people, but the Board of Directors in this business is a part of the common workforce as well. a cashier, janitor, etc. -- anyone -- can become a member of the BOD and they are only one group within the organization. the entire business is made up of separate organizations that make up, pretty much, syndicates within the organization. the BOD is just another syndicate. they just happen to handle things like finances and other decisions within the business that wouldn't be appropriate to be handled by the entire collective. they specifically handle the business decisions. these are the people that would have shown a business savvy, and so when a business decision comes up that needs a speedy and wise conclusion that only people who know about business can handle, they handle it. they, however, have no more power than any other organization within the corporation.


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Menace Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 2:50 PM | Message # 10

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Quote (eboyd)
yes, but as the capitalists have taken part in this concept as well they have created their own forms of hierarchal cooperatives and, unfortunately, i cannot leave them out if we are discussing co-ops.

They hijacked anarchist ideas as an anarchist i can't consider them cooperatives they are not even worth to be called a cooperative they are a disgrace

Quote (eboyd)
i think you are misunderstanding. i agree that more power should be solely given to the people, but the Board of Directors in this business is a part of the common workforce as well. a cashier, janitor, etc. -- anyone -- can become a member of the BOD and they are only one group within the organization. the entire business is made up of separate organizations that make up, pretty much, syndicates within the organization. the BOD is just another syndicate. they just happen to handle things like finances and other decisions within the business that wouldn't be appropriate to be handled by the entire collective. they specifically handle the business decisions. these are the people that would have shown a business savvy, and so when a business decision comes up that needs a speedy and wise conclusion that only people who know about business can handle, they handle it. they, however, have no more power than any other organization within the corporation.

I understand but everything must flow from below based on the slogan " from each according to his ability to each according to his need " everything is based on need in a cooperative and who better knows their needs then the mass of workers . I understand that these people are workers themselves but everything from economic redistribution to day to day policies are decided by the workforce rather based on individual working groups in case of day to day policies or collectively in case of economic policies , working time ,business decisions etc. This is not the anarchist way this is not even at vibe whit the ICA principles and forms of workers organizations . Let me tell you why we don't need such a model. There is a risk that those in authority in the organization and / or that the tasks of the particular service makes them more available to more training / information so inherently gives them more authority to exert greater influence over decisions, even in democratic councils, which shows that the councils themselves do not ensure participation of equal members in terms of information and influence. That's why we use more decentralization and that's why some of us in special those in the PARECON system use balanced job complexes .


eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 3:17 PM | Message # 11

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I understand but everything must flow from below based on the slogan " from each according to his ability to each according to his need " everything is based on need in a cooperative and who better knows their needs then the mass of workers . I understand that these people are workers themselves but everything from economic redistribution to day to day policies are decided by the workforce rather based on individual working groups in case of day to day policies or collectively in case of economic policies , working time ,business decisions etc. This is not the anarchist way this is not even at vibe whit the ICA principles and forms of workers organizations . Let me tell you why we don't need such a model. There is a risk that those in authority in the organization and / or that the tasks of the particular service makes them more available to more training / information so inherently gives them more authority to exert greater influence over decisions, even in democratic councils, which shows that the councils themselves do not ensure participation of equal members in terms of information and influence. That's why we use more decentralization and that's why some of us in special those in the PARECON system use balanced job complexes .

interesting. i wouldn't say they have any sort of "authority" though. they just have authority over their specific duties. but yes, i do agree that these business ideas are easily attributable to the people that work there because i did notice that the workers even at that business go through rigorous education before being allowed to become a member.


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eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 3:31 PM | Message # 12

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holy shit! why, when i knew about it, have i been passing over Mondragon for so long???:



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eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 3:46 PM | Message # 13

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http://www.mondragon-corporation.com/language/en-US/ENG.aspx

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Menace Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 3:56 PM | Message # 14

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holy shit! why, when i knew about it, have i been passing over Mondragon for so long???:

LOL man i even made a thread here presenting it and giving the link to their website LOL :D


eboyd Date: Friday, 27/Nov/09, 5:42 PM | Message # 15

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rofl

that's hilarious :D

i just didn't realize what/who they were. i though FaSinPat was a bigger operation than they were. lol!


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