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Why was Obama elected?
ALCATRAZ Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 1:10 AM | Message # 16

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Why did you vote for him then.

I voted for him for the same reason white people voted for him.

Quote (I_Guy)
As if there is such a thing.

Do you have any evidence that you have graduated an institution of higher learning? Can you please provide documentation that supports the notion that you've received a professional education? Just curious...

Quote (I_Guy)
Most colored (primarily black) people voted for him because he was young and black, as opposed to old and white.

How do you know this? Are you a mind reader? Tell me, why did I vote for Barack Obama? Menace couldn't answer, can you?


"I personally think OBCL2 is better than the original" - Lord Meth



Message edited by ALCATRAZ - Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 1:11 AM
EmSeeD Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 1:22 AM | Message # 17

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Tell me, why did I vote for Barack Obama? Menace couldn't answer, can you?

that's exactly what he asked you and you just answered "the same reason white people voted for him"

i think those videos i posted show why a lot of black people voted obama, you didn't really say anything about that though :(


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ALCATRAZ Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 1:57 AM | Message # 18

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that's exactly what he asked you and you just answered "the same reason white people voted for him"

A stupid question warrants a stupid answer.

Quote (EmSeeD)
i think those videos i posted show why a lot of black people voted obama

In both those videos I counted a total number of five Black people being interviewed.

Five as in the number 5.

Do you know how many Blacks are currently living in the United States? Over forty million. So the reality is you DON'T know their reasons for voting. You only know the opinions of a few.

Since you know why blacks voted for Obama, I would like you to read my mind and tell me why I voted for Obama. I already have the answer in my head, and I'm not saying what it is until you read my mind and tell me. :D


"I personally think OBCL2 is better than the original" - Lord Meth

EmSeeD Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 2:31 AM | Message # 19

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Since you know why blacks voted

well i didn't say all blacks

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
I would like you to read my mind and tell me why I voted for Obama

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
A stupid question

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
In both those videos I counted a total number of five Black people being interviewed

fair enough not every single black person in america were in those videos, it does show some black people's reasons for voting for him though, but yeah not every single black person was in the video


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I_Guy Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 2:43 AM | Message # 20

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I voted for him for the same reason white people voted for him.

Which was what? "How do you know this? Are you a mind reader?"

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
Do you have any evidence that you have graduated an institution of higher learning? Can you please provide documentation that supports the notion that you've received a professional education? Just curious...

I'm not sure that's relevant, my statement was simply commentary. But if you're that curious I go to KU right now.

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
How do you know this? Are you a mind reader? Tell me, why did I vote for Barack Obama? Menace couldn't answer, can you?

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
Since you know why blacks voted for Obama, I would like you to read my mind and tell me why I voted for Obama. I already have the answer in my head, and I'm not saying what it is until you read my mind and tell me.

I might imagine you may have voted for Obama for his optimistic policy that has been greatly skewed by himself, the media, and the masses. I imagine you also may have sensed his appealing charisma. For his extreme contrast of McCain. For his vibrancy and youth. His eloquence. The fabrication of either his or McCain's image by the media throughout the campaigns. Because you stick with Democrats. Because you're liberal. It could be many things. Or simply because he's black. Though I wouldn't dare say absolutely positively.

If you didn't vote for him for those reasons, I guarantee that many (if not most) people did.

But to address the real issue here, your question is invalid. The question you ask has no meaning and serves no point. It only mimics coherent argument. It's an unintelligible psuedo-counter point. The strategy that you are employing beckons attention. The question you are asking here puts you in a false position of power in the debate. You expect that if we can't give a correct answer to your impossible question, then you have won. But that is simply mistaken, and artificial as an argument. You're trying to manufacture a point out of unintelligible rhetoric.

So the point is, your question has no legitimate point. And that is also my final answer.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
ALCATRAZ Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 3:14 AM | Message # 21

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Quote (I_Guy)
Which was what?

You claim to know the reason why blacks vote for Obama. So you should be able to tell me why I voted for Obama. Simple as that.

Quote (I_Guy)
I might imagine you may have voted for Obama for his optimistic policy that has been greatly skewed by himself, the media, and the masses. I imagine you also may have sensed his appealing charisma. For his extreme contrast of McCain. For his vibrancy and youth. His eloquence. The fabrication of either his or McCain's image by the media throughout the campaigns. Because you stick with Democrats. Because you're liberal.

WRONG!

Quote (I_Guy)
Or simply because he's black.

WRONG!

Quote (I_Guy)
It could be many things.

That's much better. It could, in fact, be many things.

Quote (I_Guy)
Most colored (primarily black) people voted for him because he was young and black, as opposed to old and white.

Don't forget what you said, It could be many things. That's the point. You don't know why black people voted for Obama. You may know a few here and a few there, but you don't have a grasp of knowledge on the reasoning of the entire black vote on a collective scale, that's poppycock.

Quote (I_Guy)
If you didn't vote for him for those reasons, I guarantee that many (if not most) people did.

Pretend I am a judge. I want you to prove to me without reasonable doubt that many (if not most) Blacks voted for Obama because of his skin color. Prove it to me. With facts. Not with what you think in your head, but with actual grounded evidence. Until you can prove that, unfortunately you got nothing.

Quote (I_Guy)
But to address the real issue here, your question is invalid.

I know, and so is yours. That's the point. You can't answer why I voted for Obama just as much as you can't answer why the black populace voted for Obama. You have preconceived notions in your head that thwart your judgement. You aren't thinking on a practical level, you're simply thinking from your intuition, and that don't cut it.

Quote (I_Guy)
The question you are asking here puts you in a false position of power in the debate.

Hardly. What it actually does is put the argument in a stalemate position. You can't prove why the collective Blacks voted for Obama just as you cannot prove why a solitary black voted for him. That's the point I'm trying to convey. You aren't thinking with your brain, you're thinking with your heart -- with feelings. That false position of power is really your argument crumbling under your feet.

Quote (I_Guy)
You expect that if we can't give a correct answer to your impossible question, then you have won.

You, like other posters, have EXCLUSIVELY laid claim that the greater population of Blacks voted for Obama based on the color of his skin. Naturally, I would need direct proof of such a claim to support the validity of your statement, but so far no one has presented anything to me. So in response, I posed a question just as idiotic as your statement, so that HOPEFULLY you would see how foolish it is to claim you know why a man voted for another man, simply because he is of a particular color.

Quote (I_Guy)
You're trying to manufacture a point out of unintelligible rhetoric.

If you took a minute to calm down and see the humor in my post you would understand that I'm doing that on purpose, to show you how simple minded YOUR statement was. Hahaha, you just don't get it, do you?

Quote (I_Guy)
So the point is, your question has no legitimate point.

You are right. My question has the same amount of legitimacy as your statement about why Blacks voted for Obama. They are both silly.


"I personally think OBCL2 is better than the original" - Lord Meth

I_Guy Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 3:41 AM | Message # 22

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You claim to know the reason why blacks vote for Obama. So you should be able to tell me why I voted for Obama.

Wrong, because there are exceptions that do escape the general truth. You may simply be one of them by chance (if you're being honest).

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
With facts.

How can you have facts about opinion?

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
I know, and so is yours. That's the point. You can't answer why I voted for Obama just as much as you can't answer why the black populace voted for Obama. You have preconceived notions in your head that thwart your judgement. You aren't thinking on a practical level, you're simply thinking from your intuition, and that don't cut it.

I can generalize a conclusion due to conversations and experience (sure by some amazing fleeting chance my experiences may be rare, thought highly doubtful). Given, this conclusion cannot be 100% accurate. But this is addressing the general populace not every single individual. That's why your question is invalid. It eludes the general truth, because you are asking for complete specifics about one particular individual.

The only evidence that could be given is a poll or I go interview every individual out there. But this is where personal experience comes in. If you choose not to trust it, that is your right.

I could similarly ask, "Do most men prefer thin healthy women?" Well we can generalize that most men probably do. Through experience you could infer that most men do. But I could ask "Do you know what kind of woman I prefer." Of course there is no way of knowing. Even if I told you, there is no way you would be able to know if I was telling the truth, especially given the nature of the concerned questioning. But does my response negate the general conclusion?

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
proof

There is never proof, only evidence and logic.

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
If you took a minute to calm down and see the humor in my post you would understand that I'm doing that on purpose, to show you how simple minded YOUR statement was. Hahaha, you just don't get it, do you?

You in no way made this clear. There isn't a drop of humor. Who knows if you're being honest about it anyway.

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
I voted for him for the same reason white people voted for him.

^ How does this sound at all humorous?

So why then did you vote for him, and why did white people vote for him?


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
ALCATRAZ Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 3:58 AM | Message # 23

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The only evidence that could be given is a poll or I go interview every individual out there. But this is where personal experience comes in. If you choose not to trust it, that is your right.

I find it funny that you are giving me the option whether or not to trust evidence that you haven't even presented yet. How about you stop worrying about whether I will "trust" it or not, and just post your evidence? You are starting to think because at least now you are acknowledging that you need some type of poll so you can AT LEAST have a circumstantial indicator as to what Blacks think in their respectable demographic.

Quote (I_Guy)
So why then did you vote for him, and why did white people vote for him?

If I was white, you wouldn't say I voted for Obama because he was black, would you? If I was Mexican, you wouldn't say that? So why generalize? YOU DON'T KNOW. Stop trying to make excuses as to why you know. You don't. Anyone can see that you don't.

Quote (I_Guy)
I can generalize a conclusion due to conversations and experience

That's more like it. You can generalize a conclusion but you can't walk around with a cape on professing that the you know the majority of blacks voted for him because he was black. You are generalizing. So don't say things like, "I guarantee", or "I know", because guess what? You don't know.

Does that make sense?


"I personally think OBCL2 is better than the original" - Lord Meth

abanks47 Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 4:07 AM | Message # 24

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honestly, I am not on either side but it is a bit insulting to generalize not all but a large portion of the black population. I feel i am educated enough to make decisions and I decided to not vote for anyone because I did not take enough time out to research the parties involved. one black one possible scenario out of billions.

I think that him being black could have had some small role, but i am sure people were not blind going into the polls. many were probably more inclined to listen to him initially because he was black but later found out his policies and than decided to vote for him. <<not a fact just a thought


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I_Guy Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 4:10 AM | Message # 25

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Quote (ALCATRAZ)
I find it funny that you are giving me the option whether or not to trust evidence that you haven't even presented yet. How about you stop worrying about whether I will "trust" it or not, and just post your evidence?

And how exactly would one post experiences? You expect me to post stories or dialogues?

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
You are starting to think because at least now you are acknowledging that you need some type of poll so you can AT LEAST have a circumstantial indicator as to what Blacks think in their respectable demographic.

Polls aren't anymore reliable than experience. How would we know everyone is telling the truth?

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
YOU DON'T KNOW. Stop trying to make excuses as to why you know. You don't. Anyone can see that you don't.

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
So don't say things like, "I guarantee", or "I know", because guess what?

I'm not sure saying that most of such people believe in such and such is truly knowing. Exactly what specifics would someone be knowing? Generalizing isn't really knowing. Knowing would be stating that 35,562,201 out of 40,000,000 blacks voted for Obama. That would be a fact that you are asking for. But I'm not sure stating that the majority of 40,000,000 voted for Obama is truly knowing anything or guaranteeing anything.

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
You can generalize a conclusion

That's all I'm doing. Exactly what's wrong with that?

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
You are generalizing. You don't know.

So I guess we can't say that the majority of planets in the universe do not contain life now can we?

Also,

Quote (I_Guy)
I could similarly ask, "Do most men prefer thin healthy women?" Well we can generalize that most men probably do. Through experience you could infer that most men do. But I could ask "Do you know what kind of woman I prefer." Of course there is no way of knowing. Even if I told you, there is no way you would be able to know if I was telling the truth, especially given the nature of the concerned questioning. But does my response negate the general conclusion?

^Your response to this?

So why then did you vote for him, and why did white people vote for him?


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
I_Guy Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 4:19 AM | Message # 26

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And actually, it is important that I clarify. Of course I can't KNOW that the majority of the black populace voted for Obama, but I can say that it is highly likely, and for very understandable reasons.

We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
ALCATRAZ Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 4:34 AM | Message # 27

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And how exactly would one post experiences? You expect me to post stories or dialogues?

I'm not telling you to post your experiences, I'm telling you to find some polls for outside credibility.

Quote (I_Guy)
Polls aren't anymore reliable than experience.

That's simply not true. Polls, by definition, are surveys of public opinion, meaning more than just you. Your personal experience only counts for one person, you. A poll can reflect the thoughts of tens and even hundreds and sometimes thousands of people. You can't gain public opinion from one man. Even if you do attend KU.

Quote (I_Guy)
That's all I'm doing. Exactly what's wrong with that?

Nope. That's not all that you were doing. You guaranteed me that the majority of blacks voted for Obama because he was black. I can provide evidence of that. Do you know what guarantee means?

Quote (I_Guy)
But does my response negate the general conclusion?

How was the general conclusion reached in the first place is the important question. A poll? Or your personal experience?

Quote (I_Guy)
So why then did you vote for him

You said you know that most blacks voted for Obama because he is black. Why are you asking me if you already know? You do know, don't you?

Quote (I_Guy)
why did white people vote for him?

Surely not because he was black.

Added (27/Dec/09, 4:34 Am)
---------------------------------------------

Quote (I_Guy)
Of course I can't KNOW that the majority of the black populace voted for Obama

Quote (I_Guy)
Most colored (primarily black) people voted for him because he was young and black

Quote (I_Guy)
If you didn't vote for him for those reasons, I guarantee that many (if not most) people did.

Quote (DEFINITION)
a contradiction consists of a logical incompatibility between two or more propositions.

B)


"I personally think OBCL2 is better than the original" - Lord Meth

I_Guy Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 4:47 AM | Message # 28

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Quote (ALCATRAZ)
That's simply not true. Polls, by definition, are surveys of public opinion, meaning more than just you. Your personal experience only counts for one person, you. A poll can reflect the thoughts of tens and even hundreds and sometimes thousands of people. You can't gain public opinion from one man. Even if you do attend KU.

And as I said, we can only hope that the people are being honest when being polled.

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
You guaranteed me that the majority of blacks voted for Obama because he was black. I can provide evidence of that. Do you know what guarantee means?

Actually I said,
Quote (I_Guy)
I might imagine you may have voted for Obama for his optimistic policy that has been greatly skewed by himself, the media, and the masses. I imagine you also may have sensed his appealing charisma. For his extreme contrast of McCain. For his vibrancy and youth. His eloquence. The fabrication of either his or McCain's image by the media throughout the campaigns. Because you stick with Democrats. Because you're liberal. It could be many things. Or simply because he's black. Though I wouldn't dare say absolutely positively.
If you didn't vote for him for those reasons, I guarantee that many (if not most) people did.

I guaranteed for all of those things being general reasons for voters.

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
How was the general conclusion reached in the first place is the important question.

Ever heard of extrapolation?

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
Surely not because he was black.

What supports this claim? In your words "how do you know?"

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
Why are you asking me if you already know? You do know, don't you?

If you paid attention you would have seen that I never stated that I KNOW. I wouldn't be that careless. All I did was make claims, but that does not mean I know or think I know for sure what I have claimed. I made my claims because I believe the chance of them being factual is likely. That is all, you can disagree all you want about it.

It is you who assumed that I think I know, because it would be the only soft spot that you could sink your teeth into. But that is all your fabrication in hopes of finding a softspot.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
ALCATRAZ Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 4:51 AM | Message # 29

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Quote (I_Guy)
If you paid attention you would have seen that I never stated that I KNOW.

Quote (I_Guy)
Most colored (primarily black) people voted for him because he was young and black

That's a contradiction any way you look at it.

Quote (I_Guy)
It is you who assumed that I think I know.

Nope, you assumed too quick and I called you out on it before you could retract your statement.


"I personally think OBCL2 is better than the original" - Lord Meth

I_Guy Date: Sunday, 27/Dec/09, 4:53 AM | Message # 30

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Quote (ALCATRAZ)
That's a contradiction any way you look at it.

If so explain.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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