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Capitalism's Annihilating Factors
J-Breakz Date: Monday, 15/Mar/10, 11:33 PM | Message # 91

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Quote (eboyd)
and yes, i guess you can say that about kind of. it's not so much central organization though (however, i am completely against central organization). it's more that the enforcement of right, rather than a prevailing justice (and not in a legal sense), is allowing for such things as price fixing, among others, which makes the opportunity for equality of wealth a bit skewed.

Every attempt at price fixing has failed horribly, how is your system different than any other? One of the problems is that it's nearly impossible to have anything but an approximate census, you're going to have shortages and surpluses of commodities. It's much more efficient to have the market decide prices rather than a government to enforce prices which is pretty much what you're talking about.


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eboyd Date: Tuesday, 16/Mar/10, 3:08 AM | Message # 92

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Every attempt at price fixing has failed horribly, how is your system different than any other? One of the problems is that it's nearly impossible to have anything but an approximate census, you're going to have shortages and surpluses of commodities. It's much more efficient to have the market decide prices rather than a government to enforce prices which is pretty much what you're talking about.

OMG. holy crap. idk man. obviously it's not clicking. there is no government involved here. people will assemble VOLUNTARILY. individuals will not have to conform to any societal guidelines. they simply come together for MUTUAL BENEFIT and ASSIST each other. there is no price fixing going on. this is the most natural form of price that could possibly exist! in fact, your ideal system is exactly that: price fixing. the difference is that private entities fix the prices rather than a large scale government. prices, in this system, are not fixed. they are merely based upon scarcity. price fixing entails control over the price. in this system the people are allowing the price to take it's natural course. if something isn't scarce, IT DOESN'T GET A PRICE TAG, as it should be. now i'm not implying i have it completely figured out. i still need to consider how we would determine how much different types and amounts of labor are paid. it isn't price fixing though. price fixing is control over industry. i'm speaking of no control over industry. people labor without need to work for a boss who is constantly on your back nagging you. they simply labor because it allows them to buy things that are scarce.

and the whole "census information is inaccurate" bullshit is ridiculous. it's not nearly as inaccurate as you make it out to be and, while it is inaccurate, that is what margins of error are for. you adjust for the margin of error and so you don't allow the low end of the margin of error to dribble below the top numbers of our needs.


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J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 17/Mar/10, 1:20 AM | Message # 93

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Quote (eboyd)
OMG. holy crap. idk man. obviously it's not clicking. there is no government involved here.

I'm waiting for it to click for you that common property requires common force which is government.

Quote (eboyd)
in fact, your ideal system is exactly that: price fixing. the difference is that private entities fix the prices rather than a large scale government.

The natural law of supply and demand decides prices actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

Quote (eboyd)
if something isn't scarce, IT DOESN'T GET A PRICE TAG, as it should be.

what is in your definition not scarce?

Quote (eboyd)
i still need to consider how we would determine how much different types and amounts of labor are paid. it isn't price fixing though. price fixing is control over industry.

also the operation of preferences. You have to have to conclude that anything a person likes more than average is underpriced and anything he doesn't like more than average is overpriced. However, after 30 hershey chocolate bars, chocolate doesn't seem as appealing to the person as it once was, so then he would start spending more for another commodity. You would then have to adjust prices for that. Except then your theory of value goes to shit since ur starting to assign values on something other than "time and effort".

Quote (eboyd)
and the whole "census information is inaccurate" bullshit is ridiculous. it's not nearly as inaccurate as you make it out to be and, while it is inaccurate, that is what margins of error are for. you adjust for the margin of error and so you don't allow the low end of the margin of error to dribble below the top numbers of our needs.

Yes, because we have never heard inaccurate price fixing being responsible for shortages and surpluses of commodities....


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eboyd Date: Wednesday, 17/Mar/10, 5:12 AM | Message # 94

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I'm waiting for it to click for you that common property requires common force which is government.

no. this is dumb and false. it is an assumption you make because some idiot jackass told you so. and it isn't common property. if someone else wants to come along and utilize the property, they are free to, but people still keep tabs on it.

Quote (J-Breakz)
The natural law of supply and demand decides prices actually.

no, the businesses decide based on supply and demand which they have ultimate control over. it's price fixing.

Quote (J-Breakz)
what is in your definition not scarce?

where natural demand does not exceed natural supply.

Quote (J-Breakz)
also the operation of preferences. You have to have to conclude that anything a person likes more than average is underpriced and anything he doesn't like more than average is overpriced. However, after 30 hershey chocolate bars, chocolate doesn't seem as appealing to the person as it once was, so then he would start spending more for another commodity. You would then have to adjust prices for that. Except then your theory of value goes to shit since ur starting to assign values on something other than "time and effort".

i know what the law of diminishing returns is. you could have spared time and mentioned it. remember, i'm studying economics too. let's start with the first part of this:

Quote (J-Breakz)
also the operation of preferences. You have to have to conclude that anything a person likes more than average is underpriced and anything he doesn't like more than average is overpriced.

this is absurd. this is only relevant in the bullshit that is capitalism in order to benefit the seller and ripoff the buyer. this is unnecessary. caveat emptor in effect, as usual. you might as well say "i should sucker the buyer into it more if he wants it more".

Quote (J-Breakz)
However, after 30 hershey chocolate bars, chocolate doesn't seem as appealing to the person as it once was, so then he would start spending more for another commodity. You would then have to adjust prices for that.

no, all that should matter in a humane society is whether or not the product is scarce. the laws of supply and demand, untouched by business interests, will take their natural course and set a price that is just. if demand goes down, so does price, and diminishing returns factors into this. if supply goes down or demand goes up, price goes up. things still work the same, only profit margins do not factor in because money is no longer based off of resources or fiat. instead it is based on labor and so if someone wants a resource and that resource is scarce, they labor to an amount that is equivalent to that product's scarcity. this way, the harder people labor, the more resources are readily available, and the more people can afford to consume those resources. it's the perfect incentive for productivity and it maintains economic equality to the best of it's ability.

Quote (J-Breakz)
Yes, because we have never heard inaccurate price fixing being responsible for shortages and surpluses of commodities....

it's not price fixing. period. it is allowing the natural course of things to occur. end of story.


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J-Breakz Date: Friday, 19/Mar/10, 1:27 PM | Message # 95

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Quote (eboyd)
no. this is dumb and false. it is an assumption you make because some idiot jackass told you so. and it isn't common property. if someone else wants to come along and utilize the property, they are free to, but people still keep tabs on it.

What you just described is common property lol.... wait I know what your thinking.... and NO, IT"S COMMON PROPERTY. ah! ah! no no no... it's still common property.

Quote (eboyd)
no, the businesses decide based on supply and demand which they have ultimate control over. it's price fixing.

they don't have ultimate control over it. I linked that article for a reason:

"It concludes that in a competitive market, price will function to equalize the quantity demanded by consumers, and the quantity supplied by producers, resulting in an economic equilibrium of price and quantity."

Quote (eboyd)
this is absurd. this is only relevant in the bullshit that is capitalism in order to benefit the seller and ripoff the buyer. this is unnecessary. caveat emptor in effect, as usual. you might as well say "i should sucker the buyer into it more if he wants it more".

No it's called economic equilibrium. Even you talk about it in your little essay.

Quote (eboyd)
no, all that should matter in a humane society is whether or not the product is scarce. the laws of supply and demand, untouched by business interests, will take their natural course and set a price that is just. if demand goes down, so does price, and diminishing returns factors into this. if supply goes down or demand goes up, price goes up. things still work the same, only profit margins do not factor in because money is no longer based off of resources or fiat. instead it is based on labor and so if someone wants a resource and that resource is scarce, they labor to an amount that is equivalent to that product's scarcity. this way, the harder people labor, the more resources are readily available, and the more people can afford to consume those resources. it's the perfect incentive for productivity and it maintains economic equality to the best of it's ability.

how is pay for labor decided?


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Bape Date: Friday, 17/Sep/10, 7:23 PM | Message # 96

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eboyd Date: Tuesday, 05/Oct/10, 7:37 AM | Message # 97

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lol nice

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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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