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How Do You Appreciate Art?
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 2:01 PM | Message # 1

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This goes for any type of art, not just painting. It could be hip hop, poetry, whatever. This was inspired by a quote laPennello made me aware of. This statement was made by Aldous Huxley in one of his books:

"I strongly suspect that most of the great knowers of Suchness paid very little attention to art.... (To a person whose transfigured and transfiguring mind can see the All in every this, the first-rateness or tenth-rateness of even a religious painting will be a matter of the most sovereign indifference.) Art, I suppose, is only for beginners, or else for those resolute dead-enders, who have made up their minds to be content with the ersatz of Suchness, with symbols rather than with what they signify, with the elegantly composed recipe in lieu of actual dinner."

Now it is apparent to me, especially as of recent, with spoken word and slam poetry in particular, that more and more people are beginning to care more about the message than the symbols that create the message.

My question to you is where you lie on this spectrum. Do you admire the dinner for its elaborate and elegant recipe, for it's wonderful taste, for a mixture of both, or for something else completely unrelated?

I personally enjoy art for, and would expect that people who are into the same music as me most likely feel the same, a mixture of the two. I enjoy the elaborate way the dinner was put together and how good it tastes, but at times I can enjoy a simple, even sloppily put together dinner, as long as it tastes great, or a very elaborate dinner that tastes less than stellar, metaphorically speaking, as long as the lack of one aspect is made up for by the abundance of the other. Any other opinions here?


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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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Acekat00o Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 2:40 PM | Message # 2

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You may remember Erik that i am an artist (collour) biggrin and i enjoy a mixture of both ,allthough i do apreciate more a more elabote painting with a less of a mesage then a shity drawing with a mesage copied from somewhere ,perhaps because i know better than most of the ppl here about how time consuming can drawing and painting are cool ,but rather then a beautifull painting with no mesage i prefer a simple writen mesage ,a mixture is the best

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eboyd Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 2:48 PM | Message # 3

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^^^ i second that, and i appreciate the way you put that.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 2:50 PM | Message # 4

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Quote (Acekat00o)
You may remember Erik that i am an artist (collour) and i enjoy a mixture of both ,allthough i do apreciate more a more elabote painting with a less of a mesage then a shity drawing with a mesage copied from somewhere ,perhaps because i know better than most of the ppl here about how time consuming can drawing and painting are ,but rather then a beautifull painting with no mesage i prefer a simple writen mesage ,a mixture is the best

good thing grammar and spelling aren't your forte wink just fuckin' with ya!


"UNTIL THEY STOP ME, BURY, MURDER ME OR DROP ME, I GOT...THUG LUV FOR MY NATIONWIDE POSSE"

Message edited by MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue - Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 2:56 PM
ill Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 2:52 PM | Message # 5

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simple and let the art do the talking

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MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 2:55 PM | Message # 6

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I don't give a damn how nice my meal looks if it doesn't taste good........ So. as for art, I'll be honest, if it doesn't suit my taste I have a hard time appreciating it and may even be a little cynical at times.
For example, Erik - You like a lot of spoken word.... While I appreciate some of it, A Lot of the time I can't see past the person and how "deep" they're trying to be...and a lot of them do put on an an act to be the deep person they want people to think they are when really we're all "deep" in our own way


"UNTIL THEY STOP ME, BURY, MURDER ME OR DROP ME, I GOT...THUG LUV FOR MY NATIONWIDE POSSE"

eboyd Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 3:02 PM | Message # 7

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simple and let the art do the talking

i think i may have worded myself a bit poorly. there's great art that is simple, but that doesn't speak on how well done it is. here's an example (a poem i wrote that is quite simple, yet it is well written in pretty much every sense:

The shadow
That one casts
Will fade as he passes.

If he carves his name
Into the sun
His mark will be inscribed
Forever in it's place.

believe it or not, that actually took me 3 months to fully finish (the meter, finding the right words to fit the metaphors, what words to delete/add, etc.), but it is still undeniably simple. now here's an example of something that is written poorly, but has a good message (and i'd argue is performed well). it is also my piece and, coincidentally, it is my most popular piece because the message is so hard hitting:



my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

eboyd Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 3:13 PM | Message # 8

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Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue)
I don't give a damn how nice my meal looks if it doesn't taste good........ So. as for art, I'll be honest, if it doesn't suit my taste I have a hard time appreciating it and may even be a little cynical at times.
For example, Erik - You like a lot of spoken word.... While I appreciate some of it, A Lot of the time I can't see past the person and how "deep" they're trying to be...and a lot of them do put on an an act to be the deep person they want people to think they are when really we're all "deep" in our own way

i have a few spoken word poems but i am NOT, by a LONG stretch a "spoken word" artist. 90% of my poetry is made to be read. i just use music as a medium to express my poem aurally for, let's face it, not all people can take much out of reading something, and, in fact, most people do not read, but they do listen to music. plus i like music, so why not, you know? regardless, however, i do not try to be deep. in my more recent works i bring up many philosophical points which may, at times, be misconstrued as me trying to be too deep, like for example my poem "Egotism":

They say suicide is selfish
But aren't we all a bit self centered;
Every supposed
Selfless act
Based on pride?

Could it not be said
That every action is a reaction of egotism;
we are all truly selfish inside.

I've had thoughts of bringing
My life to an end,
To begin my eternal sleep,
But will i truly benefit
From my demise?

Through all my hardships
I still yearn for my life to be eternal.
I guess i'm truly selfish inside.

see, i sound like i'm trying to be deep, but it is more of an elegant yet simple way of presenting a concept that is very complex that i came up with in a moment of desperation. this poem is actually unique in that i was VERY depressed when i began writing it, but, almost as if the writing was therapeutic (as it is meant to be), i calmed down and began thinking rationally by the middle and finished it off in a rational mind, so what you are seeing here is half a poem written by an irrational being and the other half written by a rational, philosophical being. i feel it is very deep, yet simple and easy to digest and not written by someone trying to be too deep.


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

ill Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 3:15 PM | Message # 9

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arghh i dunno what im trying to say, i mean simple and great, im not gonna appreciate a scribble just because its simple but i prefer whatever art form it is to be simple, rather then something that is elaborate and steeped in double meanings

The World Is Yours
MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 3:25 PM | Message # 10

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Quote (eboyd)
see, i sound like i'm trying to be deep, but it is more of an elegant yet simple way of presenting a concept that is very complex that i came up with in a moment of desperation.

I know what you're saying...I do a lot of writing too - I like people to read it here and there but mostly keep it to myself....the "artists" that piss me off are the ones that always need to be in like Starbucks or some shit doing their writing so everybody knows how 'deep' they are or the one's that go the extra mile with their clothing and lifestyle choices ie. snotty vegans whop only wear hemp and want the world to know it.....
I love wordplay and metaphores and shit tho'....... I just don't understand some of the 'artists'... U know?!?!

Grouch pretty much says it for me here:

C Rayz is pretty much my favorite 'artist'....his shit is deep as hell and it takes a while to catch it all cuz it's so dope...and at the same time he's just himself...he doesn't look "artsy" at all...... check out this tune:


"UNTIL THEY STOP ME, BURY, MURDER ME OR DROP ME, I GOT...THUG LUV FOR MY NATIONWIDE POSSE"

Message edited by MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue - Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 3:28 PM
eboyd Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 3:41 PM | Message # 11

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arghh i dunno what im trying to say, i mean simple and great, im not gonna appreciate a scribble just because its simple but i prefer whatever art form it is to be simple, rather then something that is elaborate and steeped in double meanings

no, i understand that. i didn't say that if it was just a scribble you would appreciate it. let me tell you where i'm coming from. i participate in many spoken word events as that is the crowd of poets that gravitate around hip hop and those are the most accessible poetry competitions. i've won a few, gotten standing ovations at most, but the majority of the artists ho come up to speak have written something, regardless of how simple or elaborate it is, that is absolute shit. the construction of words grammatically is awful (which isn't such a big deal if you are going for a specific character, but when you are being your own damn self you should at least be somewhat grammatically correct), the metaphors don't fit right at all, when asked if they know what meter is they often reply "no" or "isn't that about 3 feet?", etc. i get tired of people who consider shit like this good poetry:

like, for example, artists who write modern poetry using "thee" and "thou" and all sorts of shit like that. WTF?! are you TRYING to write in a Victorian voice because when someone does that it puts me in a scene where it is like 1602 and we're riding on horseback, so don't use "thee" or "thou" if you are writing a ghetto love story. that shit just doesn't fit.

Quote (MAK_The_Lucid_Tongue)
I know what you're saying...I do a lot of writing too - I like people to read it here and there but mostly keep it to myself....the "artists" that piss me off are the ones that always need to be in like Starbucks or some shit doing their writing so everybody knows how 'deep' they are or the one's that go the extra mile with their clothing and lifestyle choices ie. snotty vegans whop only wear hemp and want the world to know it.....
I love wordplay and metaphores and shit tho'....... I just don't understand some of the 'artists'... U know?!?!

Grouch pretty much says it for me here:

yeah, i agree with that. that's a dope track btw. my dad actually says the same thing. same with my man Mnemonic. he's always like "man, Busdriver pisses me off!" lol!


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

ill Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 5:25 PM | Message # 12

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Quote (eboyd)
that shit just doesn't fit.

i can tell your a poet lol


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eboyd Date: Wednesday, 29/Apr/09, 5:27 PM | Message # 13

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i can tell your a poet

lol! why do you say that? haha!


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

EmSeeD Date: Thursday, 30/Apr/09, 0:20 AM | Message # 14

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mixture of both.

http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
I_Guy Date: Thursday, 30/Apr/09, 0:21 AM | Message # 15

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Quote (eboyd)
regardless of how simple or elaborate it is, that is absolute shit. the construction of words grammatically is awful (which isn't such a big deal if you are going for a specific character, but when you are being your own damn self you should at least be somewhat grammatically correct),

I agree greatly!


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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