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Be A Nigger Too?
Chinita Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 8:42 PM | Message # 31

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Quote (Adam)
You know whats weird. I've never in my life actually seen a black person get called a nigger out of hatred. Actually I've never seen a black person get called a nigger period.

wow, are u kidding? where do u live?

Quote (J-Breakz)
Why are you letting a word have so much history and hatred behind it?

because it does have history and hatred behind it...

Quote (eboyd)
e don't complain that it is becoming more acceptable because it is only indicative of the times changing for the better.
i see it different, yeah times are changing, people are getting more ignorant; naive and don't care anymore, that's not better.

Quote (abanks47)
i dont know dude, i cant think of my peoples history without remembering that word. i will never ever be able to have a smile and say that word knowing that i have blood relatives who were killed while being called that. In order for that word to be accepted by me i would have to forget history. since that will never happen i will never be ok with people using it so care-free.

thats how i feel, well said..that word shouldn't be used by anyone, i will never except that word, i can't stop people from using it but i can make sure its not used in my home starting with my children and thier friends..its about respect..

Quote (eboyd)
with the fact that the term is being weakened every day, we can see that things are progressing,

that's sad, its not that its progressing, it just shows how ignorant, stupid, misinformed, disrespectful and uneducated this generation is getting.

its just gets worse and worse how losely that word is being used..and nas is an idiot for wearing that shirt, that shirt i's a disgrace, i'm sure his grandmother or great grandma won't approve or would be ashamed of him wearing a t-shirt like that..wow thats sad..the word shouldn't be used by anyone any color for any reason.


eboyd Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 9:02 PM | Message # 32

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Quote (LadyChinita)
i see it different, yeah times are changing, people are getting more ignorant and naive.

Quote (LadyChinita)
that's sad, its not that its progressing, it just shows how ignorant, stupid, misinformed, disrespectful and uneducated this generation is getting.

its just gets worse and worse how losely that word is being used..and nas is an idiot for wearing that shirt, that shirt i's a disgrace, i'm sure his grandmother or great grandma won't approve or would be ashamed of him wearing a t-shirt like that..wow thats sad..the word shouldn't be used by anyone any color.

i am not speaking for the idiots here but rather the well-informed people who choose to use it such as Mos Def (think "Black on Both Sides", the song "Mr. Nigga"), 2pac (who actually put a brilliant spin on the word, giving it the acronym N.ever I.gnorant G.etting G.oals A.ccomplished), Q-Tip ("Midnight Marauders", "Sucka Nigga"), Immortal Technique, and of course Nas, who use the word knowing they are only weakening it's power. yes, it is a shame that some idiots hear shit like that (after all, those ARE in fact the artists that made the use of that term popular in the first place, long before the idiots today took the credit for it and lost their political message behind it) and ignorantly use it. that is why it is VITAL that we promote awareness along with mainstreaming pejoratives. and just for kicks, here's the wiki page discussing linguistic amelioration, otherwise known as semantic change. i specifically linked the section discussing forces driving semantic change. this isn't simply speaking of the semantic change of pejoratives, but words in general. if you search that page, you will note that semantic change is majorly affected by social climates. for this reason, yes, kids need to be educated on this before using such hateful words, but we still shouldn't stop them from using it because it once was bad. we are only hindering it from becoming more meaningless. think about it, would you rather know the word exists and be scared of it, or allow it to run it's course into oblivion?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...._change


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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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Chinita Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 9:05 PM | Message # 33

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this guy joined our yt group about 3 weeks ago, check out his poem.



eboyd Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 9:12 PM | Message # 34

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check my comment above chi. i think it will be helpful. however, i am open to evidence that changes my mind and/or perspective. please provide some if you can that will show that the over-saturation of the word is leading to anything damaging, or even just that stopping it from becoming more mainstreamed than it already is will be beneficial. i am very open to the possibility though i do not think it is likely.

my new theme song



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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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abanks47 Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 10:20 PM | Message # 35

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i am not speaking for the idiots here but rather the well-informed people who choose to use it such as Mos Def (think "Black on Both Sides", the song "Mr. Nigga"), 2pac (who actually put a brilliant spin on the word, giving it the acronym N.ever I.gnorant G.etting G.oals A.ccomplished), Q-Tip ("Midnight Marauders", "Sucka Nigga"), Immortal Technique, and of course Nas, who use the word knowing they are only weakening it's power. yes, it is a shame that some idiots hear shit like that (after all, those ARE in fact the artists that made the use of that term popular in the first place, long before the idiots today took the credit for it and lost their political message behind it) and ignorantly use it. that is why it is VITAL that we promote awareness along with mainstreaming pejoratives. and just for kicks, here's the wiki page discussing linguistic amelioration, otherwise known as semantic change. i specifically linked the section discussing forces driving semantic change. this isn't simply speaking of the semantic change of pejoratives, but words in general. if you search that page, you will note that semantic change is majorly affected by social climates. for this reason, yes, kids need to be educated on this before using such hateful words, but we still shouldn't stop them from using it because it once was bad. we are only hindering it from becoming more meaningless. think about it, would you rather know the word exists and be scared of it, or allow it to run it's course into oblivion?:

No one i know fears it. It's more so like chinita mentioned out of respect for other people that we do not say it, because we know at one point or another someone may have been affected greatly by this word. I cant provide anymore evidence than what I've previously stated. out of respect for the past is why i choose not to openly say it and forget its original meaning. for kicks here are some visuals:


Emmit Till, a 14 year old boy mind you, who was beaten to death for whistling at a white woman and is one of the driving forces behind the civil rights movement.


A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT.

"I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X

“those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”

eboyd Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 10:37 PM | Message # 36

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yes, i know about those. and you say no one fears it. first of all, i strongly disagree (though they feared it far stronger many years ago), second, are you implying they should fear it?

and yes, i know about all of the things presented above. i've done some moderate research on Emmet Till especially. that doesn't change the fact that getting upset at people is hindering the word's natural process of becoming less effective and powerful and that it is, in effect, hindering the process of eliminating racism. the more we let go of the word's mystique, while maintaining an understanding of the repercussions of the use of it in the past, the more we will grow as a society and the more we will free ourselves of racism.


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

chinita Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 11:32 PM | Message # 37

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i understand what ur saying with semantic change, words change over time and its true but some words carry more weight than others and this is one of those words that carrys to much history, to much weight, to much pain, some get insulted hearing it so i prefer not to use it even if 20 years from now its accept by many, it won't be by me..many still use it as hate regardless how they want to change that word or us nigga, niggah same thing..i know many use it in hip hop but it don't mean i like it or agree with it..krs one used, chris rock ueses it but it doesn't make it right.
EmSeeD Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 11:35 PM | Message # 38

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its interesting i was listening to a Necro song not long ago, Necro is a white rapper and i heard him use the word nigga in the song "Underground", also i've heard Chino XL use the word nigga a lot and he's not even black

http://chirbit.com/emseed
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EmSeeD Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 11:44 PM | Message # 39

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abanks47,

i was watching a boxing match on youtube, Robeto Duran vs some other guy, but it had the old 70's commercials,\

the first commercial that came on was these poor little black kids, walking through their neighborhood with a bucket of KFC each, bring it home, then they go to their mom's house in the poor looking neighborhood and the mother serves them the KFC, then straight after that it was an add with rich white people in flash suits advertising Cigars lol,


http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
abanks47 Date: Saturday, 19/Dec/09, 11:57 PM | Message # 40

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yes, i know about those. and you say no one fears it. first of all, i strongly disagree (though they feared it far stronger many years ago), second, are you implying they should fear it?

and yes, i know about all of the things presented above. i've done some moderate research on Emmet Till especially. that doesn't change the fact that getting upset at people is hindering the word's natural process of becoming less effective and powerful and that it is, in effect, hindering the process of eliminating racism. the more we let go of the word's mystique, while maintaining an understanding of the repercussions of the use of it in the past, the more we will grow as a society and the more we will free ourselves of racism.


I feel my implications were quite clear, people do not say the word because they respect other peoples beliefs/feelings/and backgrounds. its why i dont make holocaust jokes. and i say again, no one feared it, they may have feared the actions that came because of it or after the word was said, but i don't think people trembled over another saying that word. Ironically people probably responded the way people do today, by turning around and looking at the individual who said it. No?

And you've said it before with slightly different words many times. I say, I understand and respect what you feel the word should mean and even see some reason behind it, but it will never be that way. It will always carry that weight because the people who lived through that shit are still here with vivid and clear memories of a nation that was divided and had such an intense hatred simply because there skin was slightly darker.

Added (19/Dec/09, 11:57 Pm)
---------------------------------------------

Quote
i understand what ur saying with semantic change, words change over time and its true but some words carry more weight than others and this is one of those words that carrys to much history, to much weight, to much pain, some get insulted hearing it so i prefer not to use it even if 20 years from now its accept by many, it won't be by me..many still use it as hate regardless how they want to change that word or us nigga, niggah same thing..i know many use it in hip hop but it don't mean i like it or agree with it..krs one used, chris rock ueses it but it doesn't make it right.

Word

Quote
its interesting i was listening to a Necro song not long ago, Necro is a white rapper and i heard him use the word nigga in the song "Underground", also i've heard Chino XL use the word nigga a lot and he's not even black

Necro, Ill Bill, and some of the non black AOTP cats use it a lot. I dont care, we're in america and its freedom of speech. also chino XL is half black, doesnt excuse him in my eyes, but it might in his. like chinita cats can say what they want, but dont mean i have to like/love it

Quote
abanks47,

i was watching a boxing match on youtube, Robeto Duran vs some other guy, but it had the old 70's commercials,\

the first commercial that came on was these poor little black kids, walking through their neighborhood with a bucket of KFC each, bring it home, then they go to their mom's house in the poor looking neighborhood and the mother serves them the KFC, then straight after that it was an add with rich white people in flash suits advertising Cigars lol,


Welcome to the U.S.A. that's how we do things out here.


A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT.

"I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X

“those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”

ALCATRAZ Date: Sunday, 20/Dec/09, 4:56 AM | Message # 41

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i'd also like to add that nigger and nigga are not the same thing ... if you aren't black or around blacks you probably won't understand that, but believe someone who has been referred to as both ... they have different, distinct meanings ...

i believe there will be a point where nigga may be so commercial we are forced to accept it, but with the "er"? never ... not in a hundered years


"I personally think OBCL2 is better than the original" - Lord Meth

Menace Date: Sunday, 20/Dec/09, 7:16 AM | Message # 42

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Quote (ilikebacon3000)
Then why don't blacks unite and just say "Fuck the system". There is no "racial infrastructure" which holds them back. People who are oppressed are holding themselves back. Freedom is a matter of free-will. You want it, you do it. Whether it is right or wrong doesn't matter. You fucking do it. That is freedom. You are only as oppressed as you let yourself be.

We tried that remember COINTELPRO ?? and how literally the US government massacred any opposition ??. The US has the bloodiest history of repression in human history some academics estimate that the history of repression in the US was and is bigger then that of totalitarian countries like the former Soviet Union . And it goes beyond race they destroyed the workers movement in the 20's they framed and killed Sacco and Vanzetti they infiltrated the " Industrial Workers Of The World " and they internally destroyed this organization the same tactic used on the Wobblies was latter used in the 70's on the Black Panthers . Any effort of grassroots organizing on a large scale is severally disrupted by the government . I thought you knew a fair amount of US history to understand this , freedom was never practiced in the US it was only repressed as Howard Zinn said the " relative freedom and democracy you have now was won by the socialists and anarchists of the US by their grassroots efforts " these Utopian dreamers as you once called them Taylor won the little freedom you have .

Quote (ilikebacon3000)

Thats weird because like 30 minutes I was thinking "Why do so many so called-leftists talk SO much about saving Darfur, yet they aren't free themselves?" So yeah, I see what you mean.
But we are free. If you define free by who has the most money and who has acsess to what they want, then you aren't free. You can liberate yourself. You take what you want. You take what you need. You say what you want. You buy guns and protect yourself. That's freedom. And I can say in America, I don't have the right to do that. So America isn't free I guess.

Exactly in the US freedom is rather a abstract ideal that is constantly praised . But freedom is a concrete reality based on the equal liberty of others. On the equal economic and social freedom of others . In an economically and socially unequal society freedom is privilege . In a positive sense, freedom consists of "the fullest development of all the faculties and powers of every human being, by education, by scientific training, and by material prosperity." Such a conception of freedom is "eminently social, because it can only be realized in society," not in isolation .

Quote (ALCATRAZ)
i'd also like to add that nigger and nigga are not the same thing ... if you aren't black or around blacks you probably won't understand that, but believe someone who has been referred to as both ... they have different, distinct meanings ...

It's still an acronym for the word "nigger" you can twist it however you want it the same historical and social connotation it has .

Quote (ilikebacon3000)
There is no "racial infrastructure" which holds them back.

As i already told you there is repression and secondly post colonial countries are bound to be based on a racist infrastructure . Institutionalized racism still exists in the US and many other post colonial countries . Black people can even take over the existing system it doesn't matter one must change the whole infrastructure of the US to abolish institutionalized racism.


ALCATRAZ Date: Sunday, 20/Dec/09, 8:14 AM | Message # 43

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Quote (Menace)
It's still an acronym for the word "nigger" you can twist it however you want it the same historical and social connotation it has

look, you are obviously not black, so leave the meaning of it up to us !!! we are the only ones who are allowed to say it off the internet anyways !!!

we turned an ugly word into a beautiful word and some folks can't handle it



"I personally think OBCL2 is better than the original" - Lord Meth

eboyd Date: Sunday, 20/Dec/09, 8:43 AM | Message # 44

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Stop getting defensive. And actually, ALCATRAZ, Menace is probably black in a more pure sense than you. He was actually born in Africa lol!

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

El_Matador Date: Sunday, 20/Dec/09, 9:25 AM | Message # 45

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Quote (ALCATRAZ)
look, you are obviously not black, so leave the meaning of it up to us !!! we are the only ones who are allowed to say it off the internet anyways !!!

Menace is not black, actually Menace is Pro Black


MENACE 2 JOKER: Go back to Mexico you damn spic
JOKER 2 MENACE: Shut up you fake nigga your a damn sand nigger not a full nigger

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