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Is Bill Gates a Greedy Bastard?
Menace Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:19 PM | Message # 541

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t's an agreement among the majority, therefore rule of the majority. In the same way a dictator might have an agreement with a certain entity like a worker's council. There were objections to anarcho-communism in Spain back in the revolution but those cries were ignored.

Indeed it's an agreement between everyone . Voluntary association , free agreement and free association nobody is ruled by no one . ;) . If you agree you participate if you don't you don't everything is done FACE TO FACE . As for the Spanish Civil War i already proved my point in the other thread i quote " the very fact that every village was a mixture of collectivists and individualists shows that the peasants had not been forced into communal farming at the point of a gun ".

Quote (J-Breakz)
Whatever you wish to call it lol.

call it ? but it works EXACTLY LIKE A FUCKING STATE . You simply ignore everything i said . By modern standards used in modern political science your society will still have one or even several states .

Quote (J-Breakz)
What's your point? The person who creates a legal system isn't a ruler, he has just as much rule as any other person.

A state creates a legal system and creates LAWS in modern times such legal systems are bind to citizens trough something called " social contract" for an anarchist you really have no idea what a state is and how it works .


J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:19 PM | Message # 542

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Indeed it's an agreement between everyone . Voluntary association , free agreement and free association nobody is ruled by no one . ;) . If you agree you participate if you don't you don't everything is done FACE TO FACE .
You're just saying you have to abide by the rules and if not you can leave. VV
Quote (Menace)
it works EXACTLY LIKE A FUCKING STATE

Quote (Menace)
A state creates a legal system and creates LAWS in modern times such legal systems are bind to citizens trough something called " social contract" for an anarchist you really have no idea what a state is and how it works .

Your society creates laws.


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Menace Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:20 PM | Message # 543

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You're just saying you have to abide by the rules and if not you can leave. VV

Leave where ? What rules ? rules are created when both parties agree that's why is FREE AGREEMENT when both parties don't agree then those rules are not created you subvert cooperation and present it as statist . That's why its participatory it eliminates the social contract and it's not fixed . If one objects then the whole deal falls ;) . Plus you partake in decision-making processes at the degree you are affected by that decision making process .

Quote (J-Breakz)
Your society creates laws.

Laws ? Oh gosh no . We abolish prisons we abolish the courts we abolish everything statist . Disputes between citizens can be done at a largely social level.


J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:20 PM | Message # 544

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As for the Spanish Civil War i already proved my point in the other thread i quote " the very fact that every village was a mixture of collectivists and individualists shows that the peasants had not been forced into communal farming at the point of a gun ".

Many landlords were shot and killed, that's just one example.

"Although CNT-FAI publications cited numerous cases of peasant proprietors and tenant farmers who had adhered voluntarily to the collective system, there can be no doubt that an incomparably larger number doggedly opposed it or accepted it only under extreme duress...The fact is...that many small owners and tenant farmers were forced to join the collective farms before they had an opportunity to make up their minds freely."

"Even if the peasant proprietor and tenant farmer were not compelled to adhere to the collective system, there were several factors that made life difficult for recalcitrants; for not only were they prevented from employing hired labor and disposing freely as their crops, as has already been seen, but they were often denied all benefits enjoyed by members...Moreover, the tenant farmer, who had believed himself freed from the payment of rent by the execution or flight of the landowner or of his steward, was often compelled to continue such payment to the village committee. All these factors combined to exert a pressure almost as powerful as the butt of the rifle, and eventually forced the small owners and tenant farmers in many villages to relinquish their land and other possessions to the collective farms."

-Burnett Bolloten

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnett_Bolloten


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J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:20 PM | Message # 545

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rules are created when both parties agree that's why is FREE AGREEMENT when both parties don't agree then those rules are not created you subvert cooperation and present it as statist .

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What rules ?

The workers committee controlled the financial and technical resources of the collectives, and held the police power as well in the spanish anarchy society. You can't tell me there wasn't any sort of rule argued that ended up just being decided without the minority's authorization.


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J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:20 PM | Message # 546

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Also, I have tried to find the most unbias historical work on the Spanish anarchy society. I think I found it:

http://uweb.cas.usf.edu/ssphs/vol1no2.html


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J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:20 PM | Message # 547

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Also the series, The Spanish Civil War: Revolution and Counterrevolution by Burnett Bolloten, is unbiased and probably the most accurate of all sources. This is were I'm getting my information from.

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J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:20 PM | Message # 548

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"Where money was used only in relations with the outside world, the committee exercised virtually absolute control over who would travel and how he might spend a stipulated amount of cash. For poor peasants with austere $deals, the censorship might be morally approved and the financial system might enable them to travel for the first time in their lives. But for those who liked to decide about drinking, smoking, and traveling for themselves, this feature must surely have been onerous."

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I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:21 PM | Message # 549

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There is no monopoly within an anarcho-capitalist society. That's like saying all the companies that compete to sell blankets hold a monopoly on blankets. PDA's compete for the best and fairest service.

The goal of capitalism IS monopoly. That is the natural gravitation. Capitalism is essentially kill or be killed, it's a pseudo-sophisticated extension of the wild. A tiger would wish to be the only dominant predator in its domain, if only it could be. Its the same way with businesses in capitalism. They seek to conquer and dominate. Rather they think they want to dominate or not, the quest for higher profits at lower costs pulls them into monopoly. They destroy, merge, or cartelize with other businesses. That is what will always end up happening in a corporate capitalist society, especially when some corporations become wealthy and powerful enough. There is no avoiding it. What happens then when a corporation becomes the most wealthy and powerful? They become the new ruling power hierarchy in society.

That's why capitalism FAILS. flipoff


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:21 PM | Message # 550

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The goal of capitalism IS monopoly. That is the natural gravitation. Capitalism is essentially kill or be killed, it's a pseudo-sophisticated extension of the wild. A tiger would wish to be the only dominant predator in its domain, if only it could be. Its the same way with businesses in capitalism. They seek to conquer and dominate. Rather they think they want to dominate or not, the quest for higher profits at lower costs pulls them into monopoly. They destroy, merge, or cartelize with other businesses. That is what will always end up happening in a corporate capitalist society, especially when some corporations become wealthy and powerful enough. There is no avoiding it. What happens then when a corporation becomes the most wealthy and powerful? They become the new ruling power hierarchy in society.

That's why capitalism FAILS. flipoff


There hasn't been a monopoly in the free market system without government assistance. And businesses can't hurt each other because 1. they'll get prosecuted by PDA's and 2. It'd be a waste of money for them when they could use it to invest instead.


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I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:21 PM | Message # 551

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There hasn't been a monopoly in the free market system without government assistance. And businesses can't hurt each other because 1. they'll get prosecuted by PDA's and 2. It'd be a waste of money for them when they could use it to invest instead.

How can you say that? The only times there was no regulation there was corruption.

Don't you get it? The very fundamental element of capitalism is growth and expansion. Therefore monopoly is inevitable, especially when given no regulation.
The blunt fact is that it is a selfish system of financial conquest. It's financial empiricism. Everyone seeks to drain the world and profit, and control their parts gained to maintain profits. It inherently requires eventual monopoly.

If we let capitalism ravage the planet for another 100 years, I guarantee it will be world monopoly.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:21 PM | Message # 552

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How can you say that? The only times there was no regulation there was corruption.

wow, no there wasn't. Only when there was regulation.

Quote (I_Guy)
Don't you get it? The very fundamental element of capitalism is growth and expansion. Therefore monopoly is inevitable, especially when given no regulation.
The blunt fact is that it is a selfish system of financial conquest. It's financial empiricism. Everyone seeks to drain the world and profit, and control their parts gained to maintain profits. It inherently requires eventual monopoly.

Read up on the austrian school of economics. It sounds like you have little understanding of economics.


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I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:21 PM | Message # 553

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wow, no there wasn't. Only when there was regulation.

Why would they ever implement regulation then? -To stop corruption. If capitalism was the dream system that you claim it is, no one would stand in its way. People stand in its way because it is a failed system, and we must continually patch it up. Oil, coal, steel, railroad were all corrupt back in the day. Then the government stepped in. That's why we have regulation today.

Quote (J-Breakz)
Read up on the austrian school of economics. It sounds like you have little understanding of economics.

Sure, economists will deny until they're blue in the face, but the fact remains that corruption, exploitation, empiricism, etc. all ends up being the result of capitalism rather capitalists strive for it or not. All the negatives are built into the system, that's why they deny the negatives, because if the accepted the negatives as facts, then they would be denying the entire system as it is, because it is BUILT IN.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:21 PM | Message # 554

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Why would they ever implement regulation then? -To stop corruption.

It's started because of corruption and used to increase corruption. If there was no regulation there would be no corruption. Actually our forefathers attempted to stop that with the constitution but of course it's ignored. I say we can completely prevent regulation if we eliminate government.


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I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:22 PM | Message # 555

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It's started because of corruption and used to increase corruption. If there was no regulation there would be no corruption.

It sounds like you contradicted yourself with those two statements. How can regulation start because of corruption, yet without out regulation there would be no corruption?

Quote (J-Breakz)
I say we can completely prevent regulation if we eliminate government.

I say we can prevent corruption if we eliminate the monetary systems (and all its attributes), and there would be no need for government or regulation.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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