The Pledge of Alligance - Page 3

Date: Sunday, 07/Feb/10, 10:35 PM | Message # 31

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Quote (ilikebacon3000)

Plus you never know how much Native American someone has in them. I've seen people that look white that turned out to have pretty deep roots. Then again I don't know much about the Native American community and what not...

what does that have to do with anything?

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Date: Sunday, 07/Feb/10, 10:49 PM | Message # 32

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Quote (Pensmoke)

Spaniards are considered to be white people. Do most Mexicans look "white" to you? Does, for example, George Lopez, look more like a white man or a Native?

I suppose he looks more native than white. What's your point?

livin life like some cheesy movie

Date: Sunday, 07/Feb/10, 11:32 PM | Message # 33

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Quote (Pensmoke)

My point is that many Mexicans look more the shade of someone like George Lopez. Mexicans come from the mixture of Indians(Natives, dark people) and Spaniards ('white' light skin people) so which one would make more sense to assume they have more of in their ancestry?

I'm going to assume that when you say "Mexicans come from" you mean "Most Mexicans come from". But if most mexicans look like what George Lopez looks like (which not all do, there are many light skin mexicans runnin around) then I guess I would assume they have native in their blood. I'm still not sure what you're trying to point out. I don't know why I should be concerned with this. First of all, I'm specifically referring to full-blooded natives. I don't care about mixed people. Second of all, I'm not considering them Native American because the people that do census and demographic studies and all that consider them latino, not native american. But this is way off topic.

livin life like some cheesy movie

Date: Monday, 08/Feb/10, 3:44 AM | Message # 34

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Quote (J-Breakz)

Where are you getting this number from? Statistics aren't that credible especially if they involve religion. There could be many "weak athiests" or "weak believers". I have read from a few websites that there are 29.4 million Americans who are "not religious". I'll say from personal experience that there are a lot of attacks on religion from tv shows, school teachers, the internet. I'm honestly surprised that only 2% of the american population are athiests, especially considering that only 2% of the American population are native americans and I have yet to EVER even SEE a full blooded native american... unless that person was mexican or something, but those people don't count as native americans.

The statistics state that 15% of Americans (and the number is growing) claim to be "N/A" and that 2% are openly atheist. Many of the people in the "N/A" category believe in God, possibly even the Christian God, but disagree in some fundamental way with religion. I was being completely fair. Religious folks commonly get upset because we inflate the numbers by claiming that the entire 15% actually are atheists. I was just being completely honest.

Quote (Pensmoke)

Don't get snappy and condescending with me Erik, I aint gotta be here man you need to keep that in mind.

Whoa, what???? I wasn't being snappy and condescending. We were having a debate and the debate was beginning to get sidetracked. That statement was made to keep the debate on track, hence the "thank you" at the end. I used the word cherry-picking because, though the term has a negative connotation, it was exactly what you were doing. I put forth an argument and you fact checked something that wasn't pertinent to the argument. I was trying to be calm and polite in order to make the argument move along more quickly but apparently you felt I was being condescending. I apologize if my argument came off in such a manner, but it was not meant that way.

Quote (Pensmoke)

If you and most of the people here hate "my kind" then why the hell do you keep asking me to come back to this forum? I told you I wanted my name to be erased from this forum, the youtube page, and anything else to do with RHHF did I not? And you kept on and on at me through emails asking me to 'reconsider' and to come back. I was done man I had made my mind up not to come back here to this hater packed environment but you had to have me here.Why? It makes no sense with my ideals and the message I teach for me to be associated with this organization, I reiterated that to you many, many MANY times.

Whoa, hey! What makes you think I hate your kind or that anyone else here does???????? If I hated your kind (assuming by that you mean Christians) I'd have to hate my mother, my sister, most of the rest of my family, some of my mentors including my high school football coach, almost everyone I've ever played football with, my best friend, the entire congregation of the church I attend (yes, I still go to church), etc. None of the comments on this thread have in any way showed me that they were intended to attack you. Even I_Guy, who often comes off in a very abrasive manner when arguing on this topic, was uncharacteristically calm and non-confrontational this time around. Please don't jump to conclusions. I'm really not trying to piss anyone off. I'm just trying to have a civil discourse.

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Date: Monday, 08/Feb/10, 2:19 PM | Message # 35

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Quote (Pensmoke)

Thats apparent.

Are you supposed to be offended because you twisted my words in order to make me look like a racist? Yeah, sure, I hate mixed people, they're the worst people in the world. I don't care about their well being at all... Even though I have many family members mixed with different things, and I'm mixed also. I hope I'm just misunderstanding you and that's not what you're trying to imply. If not, then feel free to twist my words in this post to help me look like more of a racist. I could honestly not give a shit if someone gets offended because of what I say about race. The idea of someone thinking of me as a racist is hilarious to me anyway.

livin life like some cheesy movie

Date: Monday, 08/Feb/10, 2:31 PM | Message # 36

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Quote (Pensmoke)

lol Dude calm down I don't think you are racist. I think if you don't consider mixed-blood Natives to be 'real' and only full-bloods are then that is kinda messed up is all.

Oh, idk, Ive never really put much thought into that. I don't know if I consider mixed-blood Natives to be real, I guess if they would want to be called a native then yeah sure, why not. But I was trying to say I haven't ever seen a full-blooded native american and the statistic was only concerning full-blooded native americans.

livin life like some cheesy movie

Date: Monday, 08/Feb/10, 2:53 PM | Message # 37

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Pen, did you see my comment?

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Date: Tuesday, 09/Feb/10, 3:02 PM | Message # 38

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Yeah man Im done with it dude. It just gets irritating is all.

what is getting irritating? it didn't say a damn thing to offend you.

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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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abanks47

Date: Tuesday, 09/Feb/10, 3:38 PM | Message # 39

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Quote (eboyd)

what if the government of that country itself was perpetuating terrorism in other countries (such as Nicaragua, Sudan, Chile, Venezuela, etc.) and ignoring the world court and UN sanctions that were placed upon it and pissing off other governments and organizations all over the world by funding terrorists (including the very terrorists that decided to attack us who lead such attacks because they lost our support because they decided to no longer be our puppets) in the first place? also, what if you signed up to fight the enemies (such as many Americans did, including well-known NFL safety Pat Tillman, who also became very critical of the US when he found out our government's true intentions) and instead got sent to fight in a country that had nothing to do with the atrocity itself that you wished to fight against? and what if there was a better way to handle the situation than forceful, violent justice? and what if in the process of fighting for the freedom and safety of your family back home, your government demanded that you bomb a Sudanese pharmaceutical factory that just so happened to produce 50% of the entire country's medical supplies, including it's entire supply of the cures for tuberculosis and malaria, in effect leading to the deaths of countless numbers (somewhere in the tens, possibly hundreds of thousands) of Sudanese civilians, most of which were women and children? what if they asked you to assist the troops of General Pinochet (who became the fascist dictator of Chile) in deposing and assassinating the democratically elected leader of Chile, Salvador Allende? or the democratically elected leader of the Congo, Patrice Lumumba? or the current president of Venezuela (who, luckily, escaped the attempted coup and reclaimed power) Hugo Chavez? or the countless other democratically elected leaders who have been deposed or who the CIA has attempted to assist in deposing? and there are plenty of other examples. i can go on and on. and that isn't even to mention the domestic terror our country has put us through (look up MK Ultra and Operation Mongoose just to name a couple).

my bad for waiting so long, these threads tend to fall through the cracks cuz i usually only look at new posts.
as i said before, id fight if it looks like our country was in extreme danger or if we were indeed attacked in an act of war. if i signed up and was than sent somewhere else, i would gladly put my rifle down and receive what ever prison sentence they'd throw my way. although i hate prison i will not go at anyone unnecessarily. you seem to have been given me some incredibly detailed what ifs. simple tho. if it looked like my familys future was in jeopardy id take up arms, either on my soil or off it. where ever it were necessary. if others aint have shit to do with me than i would never dream of harming them or attempt to.

A WELL DRESSED SKELETON SLOWLY CUTS YOUR THROAT.

"I Have No Fear Whatsoever of Anybody or Anything" -Malcolm X

“those who consider themselves the most adamant adherents of “real” hip-hop can also be the least knowledgeable.” –Adilifu Nama; an excert from his perception of Nas’s “Genesis”

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Date: Tuesday, 09/Feb/10, 5:49 PM | Message # 40

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Quote (abanks47)

Most propaganda wars are called propaganda wars because they are backed by massive propaganda . You gotta understand that propagandists can exploit your idea and recruit you . Remember Iraq ? . In 2001 some Americans were correlating the Taliban's whit Iraq of course it had nothing to do with each other but some people believed it . People were drawn in such shady wars along US history the Cold War is full of this remember the Red Scare ? .

Date: Tuesday, 09/Feb/10, 6:39 PM | Message # 41

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Quote (abanks47)

my bad for waiting so long, these threads tend to fall through the cracks cuz i usually only look at new posts.

it's cool. i understand. i often do this myself.

Quote (abanks47)

as i said before, id fight if it looks like our country was in extreme danger or if we were indeed attacked in an act of war.

what if it was in danger but there was a more diplomatic way (like going through the world court) to handle it? for example, we can compare the Taliban to the IRA who was attacking Great Britain. GB had the IRA sanctioned and they stopped and paid reparations. there are plenty examples of where this would have been the best option, but our government didn't exercise this option, instead opting to go to war, plus we've ignored world court sanctions on us, and all of this has lead in part to the events of September 11th, among other things. if you knew that we were in danger or attacked in a act of war but knew that a better solution would have been to go to the world court, would you still take up arms?

Quote (abanks47)

you seem to have been given me some incredibly detailed what ifs.

yes, for a reason each one of those what ifs are actually things that happened in the past that were conveniently discarded from the history books and when they instigated attacks on Americans, these attacks were used as propaganda tactics to convince people to fight for their country. with this knowledge i think i'd be more likely to take up arms against my own government than the terrorists. after all, it's my government's fault, ultimately, that my family and people that i know are in danger. of course the more sane decision, in my opinion, would simply be to convince those that i care about to move to a more neutral country.

Quote (abanks47)

if it looked like my familys future was in jeopardy id take up arms, either on my soil or off it.

completely understandable. just find out who the real enemy is before making a decision to fight someone.

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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

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I_Guy

Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 4:59 PM | Message # 42

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Quote (J-Breakz)

I'll say from personal experience that there are a lot of attacks on religion from tv shows, school teachers, the internet.

That's been about since the turn of the 21st Century. That's when it really began to pick up speed.

Quote (Pensmoke)

Good for you. You want a cookie?

Yes please.

Quote (Pensmoke)

If you and most of the people here hate "my kind"

I don't "hate" anyone for being Christian or any other religion. I see them as a result of their experiences. If their experiences has led them to a religion, then so be it. I don't "hate" anyone, and if I have to "hate" something then it is the nonentity of religion itself. But by no extension do I hate anyone. I just see it as unfortunate that they are on the opposite side of the philosophy. Because by my attachment to rationalism, I would like to see them on my side of the philosophy. It's no one's "fault." All I can do is expose them to information that may reverse their indoctrination.

Quote (J-Breakz)

Mexican is a nationality.

haha, so many people overlook that.

Quote (J-Breakz)

I know full blooded mayans but because they are mexican they would be considered latinos, not native americans.

Though they should be considered Natives right?

We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...

Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 5:02 PM | Message # 43

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Quote (I_Guy)

Though they should be considered Natives right?

Idk, ok... let me try to make myself clearer. I have never seen a full-blooded native that's from a tribe in present day America only ppl from tribes that were based in like baja california. I believe when people refer to native americans in America they refer to the Cherokee tribes, and Black Foot, etc.

livin life like some cheesy movie

Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 5:05 PM | Message # 44

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Quote (J-Breakz)

Idk, ok... let me try to make myself clearer. I have never seen a full-blooded native that's from a tribe in present day America only ppl from tribes that were based in like baja california.

go to New Mexico or like Oklahoma or something. you'll see one