Vegetarianism - Page 19

Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 3:11 PM | Message # 271

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Quote (eboyd)

if you can't read each of these comments and realize that each of these people are so blatantly conservative (their patriotism is bleeding through like ink on a white shirt pocket) that the reviews hold no merit, then i don't know what to tell you. someone who commented on the book i linked up earlier wrote a statement i think is pertinent here:

"The beautiful irony of this book is that it is supposed to correct the "biases" of Howard Zinn's "People's History of the United States." Apparently, Schweikart does this by wearing his biases on his chest like a medal of honor. Good history is not supposed to be "patriotic."
I am amused by the review saying that this is a book for adults. (Apparently kindergarteners are reading Zinn now). In these terms, adult is supposed to mean Republican and unwilling to accept that American history is not a "glory story.""

the people who wrote that review are the same people (like my father) that would be quick to get pissed off at anyone who brought up the Al Shifa bombing as a US sanctioned terrorist attack or any other attack that we have sanctioned and they would justify them as "humanitarian initiatives".

Just because Howard Zinn accepts there's a bias doesn't make it any more of a good book. If there are a bunch of history books that have a right wing bias the correct approach to it wouldn't be to write a history book that has an opposite bias. The correct approach would be to write an UNBIASED piece of work and encourage others to write with less of a bias.If there's a bias and you know there's a bias then why would you read that history book? Is it to educate yourself or is it so you can spew out random leftist arguments backed by info that could be false or not entirely true?

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I_Guy

Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 4:39 PM | Message # 272

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Quote (J-Breakz)

And the worker is still the owner of his labor so he is able to quit his job if he is treated unfairly at any time to get a better job.

Drastic reduction.

Quote (J-Breakz)

No, because if you got minorities being hired because their cheaper than white people, white people then have to lower their price to compete with minority workers. Employers are willing to buy labor up to the point where the marginal revenue product of labor is equal to the market wage. So wages would obviously increase (and continue to increase while businesses become more efficient) and white people and minorites would still maintain equality.

And the white (or dominant race of workers) will despise the minority workers. =social tension
Just like we have with Mexican immigrants in America. Rednecks, -"Der takin er jobs!"

Quote (J-Breakz)

Writing a biased liberal history to balance the biased conservative history is fine. If he would have written an unbiased book it would have been less controversial and therefore more easily overlooked.

We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...

Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 4:51 PM | Message # 273

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Quote (I_Guy)

Drastic reduction.

No, he's still owns his labor.

Quote (I_Guy)

And the white (or dominant race of workers) will despise the minority workers. =social tension
Just like we have with Mexican immigrants in America. Rednecks, -"Der takin er jobs!"

Ehh, I don't think most "rednecks" are against illegal immigration for racial reasons. It's pretty logical to conclude that a vast majority of mexican immigrants will vote liberal. I'm pretty sure people who talk about "they came across the border illegally and are taking american jobs" use it as an excuse to not be able to grant them citizenship. If they aren't granted citizenship then conservatives have more power.

Yes, there are racist rednecks with racial motives but that's a minority.

Quote (I_Guy)

Well, what's suppose to be the point in writing a history book? I would think it would be to provide an accurate source of information that contains no bias. Apparently that's the wrong way to think of things.

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ThaScience

Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 6:37 PM | Message # 274

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Can someone fill me in what this thread is about? or more or less what ur discussing now. I cant read all those comments init.

EmSeeD

Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 6:49 PM | Message # 275

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well the first half of the thread was about vegetarianism, but i have no idea what the later half is about

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Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 6:57 PM | Message # 276

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we were having fun talking about the wonders of vegetables and then people started going on about politics

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Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 7:01 PM | Message # 277

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Quote (J-Breakz)

Yeah but it's an equal agreement. The employer has to meet a certain standard (work environment, pay, benefits) if he wishes to compete in the labor market. And the worker is still the owner of his labor so he is able to quit his job if he is treated unfairly at any time to get a better job.

how does any of that make it an equal agreement? it is an agreement between an employer and a subordinate worker. that alone makes it unequal.

Quote (J-Breakz)

Oh and about the whole exploitation thing, workers exploit employers also.

how so?

Quote (J-Breakz)

look, the history that is out there is already forced on kids as it is. this book is more like "ok, you've already learned this other stuff. now here's the other side of the story". that's all it is. there's nothing wrong with that. the person that i quoted even mentioned another book that is similar and shows things from an unbiased standpoint. like i said, if it wasn't for Zinn, you and i would've only heard the glorious side of our history in school. his book, as it was meant to do, forced history book writers to add the information that he exposed into their books.

Quote (J-Breakz)

Yes, there are racist rednecks with racial motives but that's a minority.

you've never been to the south, have you?

Quote (J-Breakz)

that's just it. it is NOT meant to be a school textbook (maybe college, but people are at least able to realize at that point what the point of the book actually is).

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Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 7:12 PM | Message # 278

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Quote (eboyd)

how does any of that make it an equal agreement? it is an agreement between an employer and a subordinate worker. that alone makes it unequal.

The employer has to provide a quality product that is as good or better than the other employers. The worker has to provide a quality product that is as good or better than other workers. It's a fair exchange.

Quote (eboyd)

how so?

Workers use employers for money.

Quote (eboyd)

you've never been to the south, have you?

I've been in the midwest where there's still a lot of racism (for example the mom of my cuzn's gf doesn't want him datin her daughter cuz he's black) but certainly it's still a minority. It's kinda like how people blame the prohibition of marijuana on racism. It goes much deeper than that... But then again, this is because society has promoted the idea of thinking about race every fucking day of our lives. Anarcho-capitalism (whatever you want to call it) would look at everybody as individuals.

Quote (eboyd)

that's just it. it is NOT meant to be a school textbook (maybe college, but people are at least able to realize at that point what the point of the book actually is).

Well I hope the book was made to be taken seriously as a credible reference cuz from what u guys are tellin me it doesn't seem that way.

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Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 7:23 PM | Message # 279

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Quote (J-Breakz)

you are forgetting the part where the worker is renting himself out to someone who is his superior.

Quote (J-Breakz)

Workers use employers for money.

no, workers allow employers to exploit their labor and the employer gives them money in exchange, much like an owner of a dog give the dog a treat for doing a trick.

Quote (J-Breakz)

idk where you were, but down in Mississippi, the heart of white supremacy, "nigger" is a word commonly used in public by white people in the presence of blacks, people fly confederate flags from their porches and have confederate flag license plate covers, cops beat the shit out of black people and leave them for dead, the high schools still have segregated proms, white people go to private schools (which are 100% white) so that they don't have to go to the crappy public schools where the "niggers" go (public schools are about 90% black around here), the fraternities are either white or black and white fraternities don't accept black members and commonly use the N word, etc. this isn't just a minority. i'm talking about it is accepted by the majority of people in certain areas, including all of northern Mississippi and most of southern Mississippi and also throughout Louisiana and parts of Texas, Arkansas, etc.

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Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 7:24 PM | Message # 280

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Quote (J-Breakz)

Well I hope the book was made to be taken seriously as a credible reference cuz from what u guys are tellin me it doesn't seem that way.

huh? it's made to be taken serious as the alternative to the common knowledge found in your textbooks.

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Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 7:37 PM | Message # 281

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Quote (eboyd)

huh? it's made to be taken serious as the alternative to the common knowledge found in your textbooks.

No because your still only providing a skewed perception of history.

Quote (eboyd)

, "nigger" is a word commonly used in public by white people in the presence of blacks, people fly confederate flags from their porches and have confederate flag license plate covers, cops beat the shit out of black people and leave them for dead, the high schools still have segregated proms, white people go to private schools (which are 100% white) so that they don't have to go to the crappy public schools where the "niggers" go (public schools are about 90% black around here), the fraternities are either white or black and white fraternities don't accept black members and commonly use the N word, etc. this isn't just a minority. i'm talking about it is accepted by the majority of people in certain areas, including all of northern Mississippi and most of southern Mississippi and also throughout Louisiana and parts of Texas, Arkansas, etc.

Yeah, okay, first of all we have still come a long way from 50 years ago where there were laws forbidding certain races to be able to do certain things. We are slowly not becoming as prejudice as we once were. We do have Obama in office after all. btw, even though the confederate flag is commonly connected with racists the flag isn't suppose to be racist. It's suppose to be a cry out for independence because the union coerced the south to stay in the union.

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Date: Wednesday, 10/Feb/10, 7:54 PM | Message # 282

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Quote (J-Breakz)

No because your still only providing a skewed perception of history.

smh. nevermind.

Quote (J-Breakz)

if you spent 5 months in Mississippi you would know that it isn't at all meant in that way, trust me. i'm not denying progress btw, but when it is commonplace to see intelligent white people in Mississippi at old plantations giving speeches on the possible benefits of bringing slavery back, i think that it will take a little bit more than just a quick change from one to the other form of society.