maybe its your attitude, you make a lot of comments just for the sake of upsetting people,

if i lose in a debate, fine, if i'm proven wrong fine i can accept that, i'm not always right. i don't get upset about it, but its comments like these that upset people

eboyd stopped commenting on this thread and yet you're still writing this shit about him, even though you don't need to, you're pretty asking him to come back and defend himself from such douchebaggery. no-one likes a douchebag. well.... maybe joker does

and yes i know this is the Rant Forum, but i think disrespect has become a problem on this site, im not talking about just you or just this sub-forum.

I've only been defending my posts as well as attacks on my views on race.

That's not true, and if you'd go back in the pages you'd see that. He said he would leave, and came back not once to discredit me, but twice. The first time was to call me retarded for saying that monks had supernatural powers, and the second time was to diss the thread for being garbage. I was responding to him, not the other way around.

Exactly.

yeah but that wasn't the first time you were antagonizing him

btw Menace is actually half black half arab i think.

Don't put the blame on me. This whole thing started because he called me out. He said my posts weren't valid. So I validated them. If he didn't wanna see my posts, he should've taken the advice that the administrators gave him -- Enter At Your Own Risk.

That's cool, but it wouldnt make a difference if he was green, no man deserves to be called a nigger. A nigger is not a man. What has Menace done that makes him so much better than Obama, anyways?

FINE, let's argue this.
Tupac WAS NOT a good artist.. In fact, he was a HORRIBLE artist.

Now, according to your standards on what is "good" and "bad", you obviously see him as being on the good end.
But maybe my idea of "good" and "bad" is different, and he falls more on the "bad" side.

The same rule applies for the whole Thug shit. We all have our opinions on what is "Thug" and "Not Thug", and since that is how the shit is, YOU can say "Sure, Pac was a thug."
But that doesn't mean you have to make it an absolute, and make it to where he must always be considered a thug by anyone who brings up the subject.

You were never part of the original argument, which was mainly between eboyd and myself.

He forfeited the debate. He bowed and congratulated me on my win. That's one. If you want to make it two that's fine with me.

He was?

What I can't understand is why you won't believe me when I say that argument has been dead for like 5 pages. Go through these last few pages and read the posts. We are building on many topics. That 2Pac thug stuff was dead when eboyd left the room. Abanks asked a question or two, and I answered it.

Why do you keep bringing the topic up if you want us to drop it? This is the rant forum. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK

Let's start by establishing your general views on the topic.

Please describe, in your own words, the definition of a thug, and what constitutes thug behavior.

And I'll also throw one question in to jump start this debate: Which artists in the rap game do you personally consider thugs? By your definition, of course.

Now give your definition, and we can agree on one common definition.

Rappers in the game I would consider thugs... Hmmm... Snoop back in the day, Ice T back in the day (before that Law and Order bullshit), T.I. (arrested 31 times or something like that....), Various members of the Wu, The Game may have some dirt from back in the day.

For the sake of this thread let's roll with your definition.

I'd like to know the difference between these artists, and 2Pac -- On a criminal level. You are making the claim that these artists warrant the thug title, so I am curious to know what thug attributes they possess, that 2Pac does not.

Well, Tupac called himself a thug. But as we have seen, the meaning he had when he said Thug was different. HE meant thug as in someone who rose against all odds and accomplished their goals, even though the world was against someone.
So I mean criminally, sure, he might have been a thug.
But if he insisted he was a thug, in the sense of what he meant, then why should we call him something he didn't want to be and he didn't think he was?

You are what you say you are.

That was the point I was trying to get at. If you have been in this thread from the beginning, you would know that the topic of discussion was whether 2Pac lived the life that he rapped. So he was a thug not only by his definition, but by the general consensus as well. This is what eboyd had a problem with. He refused to acknowledge the fact that 2Pac was a thug by his definition and also by the dictionary definition. I am not arguing that Pac adopted a custom fit definition for THUG LIFE, but to say he didn't commit the actions of a thug (which he also rapped about) is absurd. That was my sole purpose in defending 2Pac in this thread. He was everything he said he was.

Agreed. 2Pac was a thug by your definition, as well as his, as well as mine, as well as any legitimate dictionary. Case closed.

I agree. But no one always lives that life. Does 50 Cent live the life of a thug now? Did Ricky Ross live the life of a thug from adolescence? The answer is no. People try to discredit Pac by saying he wasn't a thug until this and until that but the same can be said for any thug on the face of the earth. No one comes out of the womb thuggin lol. No one.

I also agree because that is a direct quote from 2Pac himself. And I was trying to argue this point earlier as a matter of fact. It wasn't until 2Pac reached Oakland when he became immersed in the street life. This has been validated not only by his police record but by testimonial straight from 2Pac. He arrived in Marin City when he was SEVENTEEN years old, so I don't know what point you are trying to prove with that statement.

Added (30/Dec/09, 0:08 Am)
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tupac did assault that Orlando guy, but people get into fights all the time, even people who don't call themselves thugs. apparently he and kool g rap were shooting off guns during the LA riots, Kool G Rap says "we were just shooting off guns", whether this means they were holding people down at gun point and robbing them or actually shooting people, or if they were just shooting off guns aiming at nothing, just shooting in the air idk, the later seems a lot more likely to me. notice how Kool G Rap doesn't call himself a thug, yet he was there. even Eminem has had 5 different gun charges and he doesn't call himself a thug.

as you know tupac went to jail for rape, though he says he was innocent.

i doubt tupac robbed people, i doubt he ever needed to

i see what you're saying but living in the city and smoking weed doesn't make you a thug, if that's the case then i'm a thug.

idk if 2pac sold drugs, and 2pac wasn't part of any gang. he had a criminal record though