ill informed? you tried to lay claim that pac wasn't a thug ... i proceeded to prove that he was a thug not only by his definition but by the general consesus as well ...

since you are obsessed with the violent side of thuggin, i gave you facts ... in 1992 he was filmin a multi million dollar budget movie with janet jackson by day and lickin off shots at korean store owners with kool g rap at night ... in 1993 he shot not one, but TWO white police officers and beat the charge ... when junior mafia was staying at his crib in new york and cops raided his room he took the wrap for all the weapons they left behind, serial numbers scratched out and everything ... felony cases ... you can say what you want about pac but the truth is right under you nose ... he did live THAT life

BAHAHA, after seeing the interview where g rap got punched in the face by a skater and ran to eric b and rakim i don't think that guy is a gangsta, maybe they did some small shit during the riots

1:02

Added (21/Dec/09, 5:32 Am)
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how bout we leave this alone now fellas ... some of you need to do your homework before stating your opinions on certain things ....

i didnt say he was fake or a bullshit artist, i admire the man very much for his bravery and the sort of person he was in life, just people dont see past that gangsta thug image, and see that their is a kind hearted intellectual pac.

Proved it? Hardly. Dude, I'm Los Angeles born and raised. I actually know Pac's people. I spent Pac's b-day with Mopreme (his step brother), Leila (who I am closely associated with), etc. Not a single person in that group would agree with a single thing you are saying here. Look, I'll be seeing Leila tomorrow night. I will bring this convo up to her just to clarify this for you.

Because that is what a thug is! Yes, 2pac gave the word his own spin, effectively defining himself into being one (which is one of the brilliant things he did that I enjoy about him), only because he's been fallaciously labeled one, but a thug is most typically gang affiliated and spends most of his time doing things that are harmful to society. A majority of what 2pac did was positive and had great positive effects. Thug, however, is a synonym for hoodlum. 2pac was hardly a hoodlum. If his life was reduced to that of a hoodlum that would be quite a shame.

Dude, how the fuck do you go from "poppin' guns" to "lickin off shots at korean store owners"?!?!?!?!?

KGR NEVER said ANYTHING like that. He simply said they were shooting during the riots.

...For politically charged reasons. Do you know how many Black Panthers shot and killed cops (who gives a fuck if they were white, black, purple, orange, etc.?!?! They're police officers! Yes, white cops tend to be racist, but it is irrelevant here) and DIDN'T beat the case??? Does that make them thugs??? The only people that would say so are people like my idiot father who doesn't have an inkling of understanding of why they did what they did. Anyone who was involved in any of that would be pissed if you called them a thug. They weren't thugs. They were revolutionaries. There's a big fucking difference. If you call them thugs you completely undermine the entire reasoning behind what they were doing.

My best friend took the rap for his brother's fight and spent a year in jail because of it. Is he a thug? I guarantee if you told him he was a thug he would detest your use of the term. Also, by your logic, Lil Wayne and TI are thugs as well. Same with Gucci Mane. Idc if they were. That would explain a lot. However they, Wayne especially, grew up rich and were never truly "thugs" and I think we can all agree on this. Taking the rap for a friend doesn't constitute "thuggery". I could take the rap for someone else's actions but I would be pissed if someone called me a thug for doing that. "Thug" is an insult.

Once again, he was a revolutionary at worst. Calling him a thug by the strictest sense is truly a smear on his legacy.

When you spark a discussion on something you have no knowledge base of whatsoever, and people expose your ignorance, you can't just skirt your way out of the discussion.

Yes, I agree. Maybe you should actually come to LA and meet with Leila and all of Pac's people and discuss your thoughts on him and learn from them about the real 2pac before pretending to know about his life as if you changed his underwear for him every night.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Not helping

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Could u post the link for the whole interview, please?

Look, you can keep name dropping people as if you are part of their inner circle, but it's not gonna dismiss the FACT that 2pac has said on more than a million occasions that he was a THUG ... Now i can either take Pac's word for it, or I can take the word of a former manager who took him in when he was broke ... I think i'll roll with the former

2Pac was a hoodlum. He rioted when Los Angeles went up in flames, he shot police officers, he beat up movie directors who didn't cast him as the role he felt he rightfully deserved instead of simply taking them to court or handling it in a more respectable manner ... It's not his fault he grew up in the limelight ... Once again, here you are trying to discredit Pac's own words because you have a problem with the fact that he lived his raps

It doesn't matter the reason for why he did it. The fact of the matter is, a black rapper who claims to be a THUG shot and wounded two police officers ... even THAT is not enough for you to grasp the reality of what I'm saying here. Remember a few pages back, when you said that even rednecks pop off shots in the air? Then I dropped the police shooting video on you and now you want to say that has nothing to do with him having a THUG mentality ... you are fighting an uphill battle, lol ....

First of all your best friend is not a high profile rapper with multi platinum records and movie deals on the table ... Pac had a lot to lose by taking the wrap for guns with the SERIAL NUMBERS scratched off (easily a 3-5 year bid, but you should know that being born and raised in LA) ... Pac could've been slick about it and name dropped but he didn't, because he knows the code of the streets, the code that THUGS follow ...

Are you talking about Lil Wayne? The same Lil Wayne that grew up in Hollygrove, New Orleans? Wayne was a product of the street. You are just too much of a hater to realize that. In 1993 when Wayne first started running with Cash Money, New Orleans had the highest murder rate in the entire country. In 1994 there were 425 murders in New Orleans alone. That constitutes a war zone, regardless of what you have to say. I don't care if you are making rap records or pushing weight ... If you live in a neighborhood where black men are dying every single day and you make it OUT OF THAT, then you have every right under the sun to call yourself a thug ... You come from a different place entirely, so you would know nothing about surviving under those circumstances ... Maybe you should stick to what you know and try not speaking on things out of your range of grasp

If you're white, yes it is. If you come from the gutter, the word holds a different meaning. You aren't a product of that lifestyle, so again, stay silent and stick to what you know ...

You told me he wasn't a thug, I produced an article where Kool G Rap said him and 2Pac were busting off shots during the riots, this was also confirmed by 2Pac in his blackwatch interview where he claims to have shot at "chinese takeouts" ... you then replied by saying red necks also can shoot guns, and that the interview could've meant anything because it was too vague ... so I went back and produced a video confirmed by Mopreme of 2Pac shooting 2 white police officers ... I also included how he assaulted movie directors, caught gun charges, and faced felony counts of drug possession and STILL ... STILL you claim that I am somehow avoiding the topic

maybe it's you that's avoiding the truths in my post, ever consider that?

You can crack jokes all you want, all that says to me is that I've made you too mad to discuss this on a respectable level. To be quite honest you do seem rather butt hurt that I disproved all your claims in less than 10 posts ... must suck to be a mod and get your hip hop history from someone who doesn't even have 100 posts yet ...

But yeah, keep cracking jokes, keep making homosexual references ... All that says to anyone viewing this thread is that you have nothing left to counter my posts and need to resort to name calling ... Damn it feels good to put mods in their place ...

"I live the thug life, baby I'm Hopeless!!!!!"

Like what?

Hahahaha, dude, sit down ... here we have another conspiracy theorist with his thumb up his ass ... You don't know who killed Pac as much as the next man ...

Man, no one is doubting anything you say in that regard ... All I'm saying is that if I have to choose between Leila's words or 2Pac's words, I'm picking 2Pac. Regardless of how many top ramen noodles she cooked for him.

Yes, you are ... It's blatant

With you this is a neverending cycle, and this is your crutch in this argument. Everytime you say Pac was a thug by his definition, I give you examples of him exhibiting thug behavior to which you reply, "No, that's not Pac being a thug, that's Pac leading the revolution" lol ... There is absolutely no winning with you ... If I give you examples of thug behavior, it's just his revolutionary spirit ... Then in the next post you will turn around again and say Pac was only a thug by his excuse ... You aren't fooling anybody

is a courtroom documented video good enough for you? let me guess, this is his revolutionary spirit showing again ... like a true revolutionist he beat down the hughes brothers as a sense of brotherhood and unity for the future advancement of his people ... give me a break

I understand that, but can YOU understand that Pac identified as a THUG? jesus christ, open your eyes ... he calls himself a THUG, and he follows the THUGS code of the streets, even when he wasn't in the street anymore ... one plus one equals two, eboyd

Rodney King is black. You are white. Do you see where I'm going with this? You don't need to live your life in survival mode. The majority of blacks do. I don't care if Rodney King got beat up IN your house, it doesn't make YOU (a white man) any more vulnerable.

Looks like I was spot on.

Witnessing that lifestyle and actually living it are two different things. Pac lived that lifestyle. You didn't. Your life may have been impacted on a superficial level but you ain't starving. You always had food on the table, kid.

Your ignorance is showing. Niggaz have been calling themselves thugs since at least the mid sixties as a term of endearment ... But like I said before, you watch the hood from your internet screen. You don't know about what goes on in the street so why speak on it as if you do? You just make yourself look even more pretentious.

I shouldn't have to keep posting evidence. Remember when you said...

well, you were lying ... you haven't done the same amount of studying i did ... if you did, i wouldnt need 2 keep going to youtube and digging up old interviews and news articles ... i've been telling you from the start, do YOUR homework and come back to ME

And as for Pac shooting at Chinese takeouts ... cut to 1:03 ...

I'm not producing any more evidence for you ... If you want to learn more about the man you claim to know so much about, do it yourself ... maybe you can get Leila and Mopreme to give you some references to help you on your search for knowledge

have i? take a look at the past couple pages and you tell me who is lookin misinformed lol

Look everyone, he's mad lol ... want a tissue? Dry your eyes, it's only one loss. You'll recover and the masses at realhiphop4ever will go back to respecting you for the decent mod that you are. Don't be mad at me because I made you look bad. If you can recall, I came in this thread showing nothing but respect. It's you guys, the REAL HIP HOPPERS *rolls eyes* that started quoting my posts and trying to smear Pac's name by saying he wasn't what he claimed to be. As a 2Pac fan I can't just sit back and let you guys blatantly accuse him of potraying something he wasn't ... This is a discussion forum. You don't like the knowledge I'm kicking, don't click the thread.

No, thank you ... for giving me my first win on the forum ... lol from a mod too ... thanks bro

you're right, i don't know why Pac was killed, nor does anyone else, and i shouldn't actually make the claim because it is a conspiracy theory (though a lot less ill-founded than most conspiracy theories like the Illuminati bullcrap that i always see regurgitated) and nothing more until evidence is shown, but Pac was a commodity to Suge and that was easy to see. though Pac had already built a gangsta persona for himself somewhat, Suge's vision had always been to enhance it. he single-handedly (arguably with the help of Puffy) constructed the east-west beef by manipulating 2pac after his release from prison when 2pac, using what Pac had heard in jail as fuel to build the beef into what it became.

wtf do i have to gain from telling you guys i know Leila? the only thing i have to gain is grounding in this argument, hence, i'm using it to strengthen my argument, not to blow my self up. that may not be blatant, but it's the only reason i brought it up in the first place. very few people even know about my affiliation with Leila, even here, where we are a tight knit family. you'd think i would have at least told people here about it, but i haven't, except for to a few. it's inconsequential to me.

if someone has racial, political, social, etc. motives behind doing something, they are doing it for a revolutionary purpose. if they are doing something just to be a hoodlum (which 2pac obviously wasn't in any of these cases), and they do such things repeatedly just to be malicious, then they are doing it for the purpose of thuggery. 2+2=4

and if you want to say his definition is enough, words go through a long process of linguistic amelioration before taking on a separate meaning and it involved more than one single catalyst to change an entire word's meaning.

what is with you and "winning"? i try to have good arguments in which both people learn and it is a give and take, but this discussion quickly devolved into you trying to "win" and making unintentionally insulting claims that lead me to check you and eventually get defensive, and so because of this, i simply resorted to anger and insults because you obviously don't realize that you are a pompous asshole and you don't know how to have an argument. i obviously shouldn't have resorted to petty insults and arrogance as i did, but i just felt no hope for this convo. my error here, but holy shit man.

hey, it's not my fault that you can't see the difference.

ok, thank you for finally providing evidence. it appears he felt he had reason to assault him, and he tried to justify it, but given the evidence, this is the act of a hoodlum.

he identified as the little infant that grew up to fuck everyone that fucked him as a child. that is the kind of T.H.U.G. L.I.F.E. that 2pac lead. he identified as a thug because he was branded so by Dan Quayle and C. Dolores Tucker and also to fit a persona that he had built up; one that helped make him as famous as he was and ultimately partially lead to his untimely death.

yes, i do, and in response i say fuck you, you (hopefully unintentionally) racist piece of shit (in, of course, the most calm, rational way i could possibly make such a statement).

who said? do you know what i've been through? i'm not going to share my personal life with you, but i've been through my fair share of situations where my life was threatened (and i don't just mean verbally) by another human being. the major reason, however, that i didn't go through this as often as many of my peers was not because i was "sheltered" as you may claim (though i willingly admit i had it better than many of my friends), but because i chose not to go that route while many of my friends (some of which had it much easier than i did) did choose that route.

if we are talking on an economic level, the average African American household is lower-middle class according to the census, which is just below where my family is currently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Income

so the statement that "most blacks" struggle to survive in a way white people can't relate to, that is fallacious. many blacks, and far more than whites, struggle with poverty, and the older the person is, the more likely that person lived at some point in serious poverty, but that is not at all the majority anymore. not to say that the current state of society is at all acceptable, but let's at least be factual here.

exactly the pretentious bullshit that began my hostility towards you. "the white man has it so much fucking better and he beat my ancestors!!! the white man is keeping us black people down!!!!" boo-fucking-hoo. yes, we have it better. and guess what? things are getting better for black people. they're not getting better for people in general, however. when you realize that racism is just a facade covering the root problem -- classism -- maybe we can talk civilly.

looks like you're still a bigoted idiot.

being called to it and choosing not to go and being nowhere near it are also two different things. yes, i had two parents that loved me and provided for me the best that they could and taught me well, so you can attempt to call me "sheltered" all you want, but the best they could do, because Cali is so expensive and neither have degrees, was send me to a public school where i had to choose to either sink or swim. luckily for me, i was one of the few that chose to start paddling. i still far more than "just witnessed" it. i've been entrenched in it my whole life because of the people i associated with.

i'll finish this later maybe because i need to go.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

lol oh man you don't know what sarcasm is? that was part of the fuckin movie man, shit, watch the video again he says "and i was just shooting up chinese take outs in the movie"

lol omg man ... you can't be serious ... ok get ready, i'm gonna drop a bombshell on you using your own post...

hahahah earth to emseed ... earth to emseed ... take the bag off of your head and try to grasp the context of what pac was saying ... how old are you, 14?