http://www.truth-it.net/american_system_of_education.html

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338

http://www.buzzflash.com/store/items/1650

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14416

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,852061,00.html

http://www.commoncore.org/_docs/CCreport_whybehind.pdf

here, let me have Noam Chomsky explain to you in a much more sophisticated way what bacon is trying to convey:

he's not sympathizing with the terrorists, he's saying, like McVeigh, their grievances were justified, but what they chose to do about them was horrendous and not at all justified. if you get a chance, go to your local library and find a short book by Chomsky called "9-11". i'm reading it now. great book, quick and easy to read. it will explain a lot to you.

ter⋅ror⋅ism
/ˈtɛrəˌrɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA
Use terrorism in a Sentence
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–noun

1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

here's the definition of terrorism as defined in the US Code:

(1) the term “international terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/718/usc_sec_18_00002331----000-.html

"one way to reduce violence and terror is to stop participating in it."

-Noam Chomsky

history proves that the United States is guilty of being one of the greatest terrorist nations in recent history.

there's a difference between empathy for terrorists and an understanding of their frustrations.

no, you're right. America is guilty of much worse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shifa_pharmaceutical_factory

"Critics of the attack have estimated that up to tens of thousands of Sudanese civilians died throughout Sudan as the supply of necessary drugs was cut off"

check the video i posted above. what we have done is attacked an entire country over what a small, decentralized, radical group did to us. that's like nuking a fly. and if we do assume that, in some convoluted way, the country of Afghanistan was to blame, then what we did to them is different from what they did to us and what they did to us is less justified than our actions (though i would contest an argument over who was more justified would be equivalent to an argument over which criminal was less at fault for robbing a bank), but we need to apply the same scrutiny to our government that we do to foreign governments when it comes to our terrorist activities such as the Iran-Contra scandal, the attack in Sudan that i mentioned above, the assassination of Salvador Allende to put General Pinochet in his place, the attempted assassination of Hugo Chavez, the assassination of Congolese president Patrice Lumumba, etc. oh, and let's not forget our general support of terrorism. 90% of terrorist funds come from the American government. the CIA attempted to assassinate, and eventually deposed Saddam's predecessor and actually put Saddam and the Baath Party in place in the 1950's and supported and funded Saddam through some of his worst atrocities. the CIA also trained Osama bin Laden and funded his war against Russia and continued funding him as he terrorized several countries. conveniently when he attacked a couple of US embassies he topped our FBI's most wanted lists.

read up on libertarian socialism. wikipedia actually has a surprisingly good and comprehensive article on it. basically, the idea is that in a libertarian socialist society, the prices at supermarkets won't be so staggeringly high and the supply and variety will be even greater because money is actually directly represented by labor.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

em·pa·thy (ěm'pə-thē)
n.
Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity.

"On August 20, 1998, the factory was destroyed in cruise missile strikes launched by the United States in retaliation for the August 7 truck bomb attacks on its embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya (see 1998 U.S. embassy bombings). The administration of President Bill Clinton justified the attacks, dubbed Operation Infinite Reach, on the grounds that the al-Shifa plant was involved with processing the deadly nerve agent VX, and had ties with the Islamist al-Qaeda group of Osama bin Laden, which was believed to be behind the embassy bombings and Operation Bojinka. The August 20 U.S. action also hit al-Qaeda camps in Afghanistan, to where bin Laden had moved following his May 1996 expulsion from Sudan."

I'm not saying that it was the right decision on the U.S.'s half to destroy it but if they really did have that and a connection with Al Qaeda then I see why they did do that. We have no substantial evidence as far as I know about them possessing this stuff or the Al Qaeda ties so I'm taking it for granted that they did have these. Either way I don't see how indirectly killing a bunch of people is worse than directly killing them. Indirectly because they did something which happened to kill a bunch of people and directly because the other group did something which was meant to kill a bunch of people.

"Critics of the attack have estimated that up to tens of thousands of Sudanese civilians died throughout Sudan as the supply of necessary drugs was cut off[1][2]."

"Critics" have "estimated" that the attack killed up to tens of thousands of Sudanese civilians. We don't know where they get these numbers from either, where they're from or if they're biased in any way. Either way as far as I know this attack wasn't made to cut off people's medicine but rather to damage Al Qaeda. I'm not sure what other option they had, should they have gotten all the workers out of there and have some Americans take over the medicine production?

I'm not going to defend the terrorist thing but I'm not sure why exactly the war in Afganistan was started but I'm pretty sure there was more to it than "you have a group in your country which attacked us and so we're attacking you".

I'll admit I haven't checked that out at all, I might do that soon. If it's practical then I don't see why it shouldn't be done, I know a lot of products are way overpriced just because the market decides that they should be, not because they're so incredibly valuable.

A majority of the deaths that resulted from the atrocities of Stalin and Mao were indirect and not meant to kill anyone. That doesn't change the fact that Stalin is widely considered the worst human rights violator in the history of the human race with the highest death toll of any single individual (even higher than that of Hitler) and Mao is up there as well. And as you've noticed yourself from reading that article, WE HAD NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that the factory was making nerve gas OR that they had ties with Osama, and we had even less evidence that they were planning to harm us. What we did is comparable to beating the shit out of a little kid because we heard rumors from a second hand source that he had plans to steal someone's lunch money.

Whether it is a few thousand or tens of thousands (which is quite likely to be accurate considering the estimates come from credible sources who were ACTUALLY IN SUDAN TO MAKE THE ESTIMATES), it was a huge atrocity (far worse than that which was a result of the towers) and one that we continuously deny responsibility for. Additionally, us and our allies in the UK continually deny them to replenish their supplies, making us even more at fault.

No, there wasn't anything else to it (except maybe "oh, and we want to exploit your resources") and that's the whole point.

Wait for bacon to get on to help explain whether or not he meant what I am saying, but I personally interpreted what he was trying to say specifically in the manner that I described above.

Not necessarily the government, but various organizations within the state and government. As you pointed out above, I make a clear distinction between the American public and the US government. As a matter of fact, on the exception of a few extreme cases such as Project MKULTRA, I rarely ever actually blame "the government" for such actions, but instead I blame individuals within the government. It is unfair to blame the government because there actually are honest politicians, whether people want to believe it or not.

I agree, however, on your point that saying "fuck terrorists" should be plenty acceptable. That is the one thing I disagree with bacon on.

Don't worry, I won't go there

OMG you fucked it up and it's all your fault!!!!!!

chinita fucked up. Check her thread about it in the heads forum.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Iraq didn't do shit to the US . In fact Saddam was put in power by the US government but after Saddam nationalized Iraqi industry and invaded an US ally that being Kuwait the US stopped supporting him . The US is more to blame for putting dictators into power then other any nation in the world . And that's why the US is hated around the world because its an EMPIRE in an age which empires must be abolished and all MEN MUST BE EQUAL in the words of the US constitution

Quote (eboyd)

hey, i didn't say that! i wouldn't say something so irrational!

Yeah i know you didn't LOL . . Your my puppy you know that .

Oh yes i forgot this is private stuff between us LOL

The education of the MASSES not individual education . When there is a good educational system then the masses the people as whole are more educated .