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Religion: Real or Fake
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| I_Guy |
Date: Tuesday, 21/Apr/09, 1:52 AM | Message # 1 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
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What began this thread:
http://realhiphop4ever.ucoz.com/forum/12-1890-1 Religious folks need to give up.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| I_Guy |
Date: Thursday, 04/Jun/09, 11:59 PM | Message # 421 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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1. Sodr, do you believe in fossils? If you do, you should be aware that there are many layers of sediment that are records of the Earth's past. Within these layers exist fossils of ancient creatures. The Earth has modern creatures and it has ancient creatures. Are you aware that there are no fossils of modern creatures in ancient layers? What does that tell you? Evolution becomes quite clear. How do you explain the absence of, let's say an African Giraffe in the ancient layers of the earth? If god created all creatures at the same time, then there would be a uniform mix of fossils from all creatures through a very thick layer in the Earth's crust. 2. How would you account for the likelihood of alien life? If you think there is no alien life, why did he create so many planets dead? 3. Why is it the intelligencia of the planet do not believe in god? 4. How do you account for Neanderthals and other ancient humanoids? 5. How do you account for the horrible diseases in the world? God's creations? It's so funny because religion sits back with its assumption feeling justified by the Bible and feeling wise like they have found the truth, meanwhile science busts its ass to find the real answers and gets no respect, in fact it gets disrespect. For what? For trying to look into the truth?
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Friday, 05/Jun/09, 12:03 PM | Message # 422 |
OGs
Posts: 2772
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Quote (I_Guy) 1. Sodr, do you believe in fossils? If you do, you should be aware that there are many layers of sediment that are records of the Earth's past. Within these layers exist fossils of ancient creatures. The Earth has modern creatures and it has ancient creatures. Are you aware that there are no fossils of modern creatures in ancient layers? What does that tell you? Evolution becomes quite clear. How do you explain the absence of, let's say an African Giraffe in the ancient layers of the earth? If god created all creatures at the same time, then there would be a uniform mix of fossils from all creatures through a very thick layer in the Earth's crust.
1. speciation
2. i dont believe in a 6000 y.o. earth Quote (I_Guy) 2. How would you account for the likelihood of alien life? If you think there is no alien life, why did he create so many planets dead?
if there was alien or no alien life, it wouldn't affect my beliefs.....why did God create many planets dead? the planets, stars etc were created to mark signs, seasons, days& years.... God created it to be a giant clock.... an enormous calendar.
...that's one explanation....also, keep in mind that ALL of His creation, He saw as "good." Quote (I_Guy) 3. Why is it the intelligencia of the planet do not believe in god?
the what now? Quote (I_Guy) 4. How do you account for Neanderthals and other ancient humanoids?
how do you account for keanu reeves? Quote (I_Guy) 5. How do you account for the horrible diseases in the world? God's creations?
 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
did you read the story of adam and eve? do you know what they did?!?! Quote (I_Guy) It's so funny because religion sits back with its assumption feeling justified by the Bible and feeling wise like they have found the truth, meanwhile science busts its ass to find the real answers and gets no respect, in fact it gets disrespect. For what? For trying to look into the truth?
1. the bible is not a science text book, its a book of the truth, yes, but about salvation...like they say: John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. <---ie. salvation, free from sin and suffering 2. are you telling me Christians cannot be scientists or what? how can you say that?? i think you should take that back,some of the greatest thinkers and scientists were Christian, for eg.: Matthew Maury read in Psalm 8:8 "the paths of the seas" He believed that there really were "paths in the seas" because the Bible said so. His friends didn't believe him. They laughed at him. But then he proved them wrong. He went looking for those paths and found the warm and cold oceanic currents. He became the founder of Oceanography.........so why laugh at him in the first place? for trying to look into the truth?? Added (05/Jun/09, 12:03 Pm)
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Quote (Menace) PSYCHOLOGY SAYS THAT THE SCIENCE that studies the mind the mind and conscience is what propagates behavior
so emotions are imperfect because psychology says so? i still can't see why emotions are so primitive as you say Quote (I_Guy) Fucking move on! There's no hope for you on this topic. How fucking typical to get into a rediculous bickering with a person like you. Distracting the debate with petty minded insignificant bullshit. Who gives a fuck about this and that specific detail, just fucking respond with your defense.
there's no hope for me? im trying to look into menace's argument he claims is so "solid" and he once thought i was trying to escape it because it was so strong....i have yet to be convinced, but in any case, i think menace should be the one to say "move on" not you
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
Message edited by sodr2 - Friday, 05/Jun/09, 12:06 PM
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| I_Guy |
Date: Saturday, 06/Jun/09, 0:24 AM | Message # 423 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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1. Quote (sodr2) 1. speciation
No way. There is absolutely no way. I think you mean evolution. 2. Quote (sodr2) an enormous calendar
Even the objects millions of light years away? Absurd. 3. Quote (sodr2) the what now?
The high-intellectuals. 4. Quote (sodr2) how do you account for keanu reeves?
Bullshit answer. Be for real. 5. Quote (sodr2) did you read the story of adam and eve? do you know what they did?!?!
 Quote (sodr2) are you telling me Christians cannot be scientists or what? how can you say that?? i think you should take that back,some of the greatest thinkers and scientists were Christian, for eg.:
I'm addressing modern scientists. The scientists that supposedly were Christian didn't understand what scientists understand today, so they had a reason to believe in a god. If they knew what is known now about science I could almost guarantee they would not have any faith in religion. Besides most of the great scientists that Christianity tries to claim are severely misrepresented. What little faith they had is exaggerated or misinterpreted. Besides, the great scientists of the past only developed simple scientific ideas compared to the shit scientists are doing now, so really, they are in entirely different leagues. Quote (sodr2) there's no hope for me? im trying to look into menace's argument he claims is so "solid" and he once thought i was trying to escape it because it was so strong....i have yet to be convinced, but in any case, i think menace should be the one to say "move on" not you
So someone could drag the same dead topic on for years if they wanted to, because somehow they deserve the right to steer the debate?
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| Menace |
Date: Saturday, 06/Jun/09, 7:37 AM | Message # 424 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (sodr2)
so emotions are imperfect because psychology says so? i still can't see why emotions are so primitive as you say yes psychological studies shows that the evolution of the mind shows that but wait you don't believe in neither evolution or psychology as a science so this argument can't go somewhere
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Saturday, 06/Jun/09, 5:16 PM | Message # 425 |
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OGs
Posts: 2772
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first id like to ask who moved this back into the rant forum? Quote (I_Guy) No way. There is absolutely no way. I think you mean evolution.
no, im not talking about that. i said SPECIATION over a long period of time...not the theory that all life forms have a common ancestor Quote (I_Guy)
Even the objects millions of light years away? Absurd.
did you finish reading my answer or what?????? i said all creation in God's eyes are considered "good." Quote (I_Guy) The high-intellectuals.
why don't high-intellectuals believe in God? forget their qualities, why not just ask why people don't believe in God. read the story of the wise and foolish virgins...there are only wise or foolish people on this earth. God and His plan has been revealed throughout history and there is no reason for no one to come to believe in God. Quote (I_Guy) Bullshit answer. Be for real.
yeah, nice trying to escape my question about reeves
it seems to me you don't want an answer...you're not willing to accept anything. read the story of adam and eve and you'll get your answer Quote (I_Guy) I'm addressing modern scientists. The scientists that supposedly were Christian didn't understand what scientists understand today, so they had a reason to believe in a god. If they knew what is known now about science I could almost guarantee they would not have any faith in religion. Besides most of the great scientists that Christianity tries to claim are severely misrepresented. What little faith they had is exaggerated or misinterpreted. Besides, the great scientists of the past only developed simple scientific ideas compared to the shit scientists are doing now, so really, they are in entirely different leagues.
 are you honestly telling me that there are no modern Christina scientists? "The scientists that supposedly were Christian didn't understand what scientists understand today, so they had a reason to believe in a god."
i can't believe that you think Christians believe in God because they don't understand this world...i can't believe it....may i ask what things in modern science do you claim goes against the fact that God exists? you are overgeneralizing and being bias. yes, its true some religions exist because they don't understand things in this world, but that's not the case for Christianity. it's not a religion of practices like the rest, but it's a relationship with God that calls us to be moral everyday in our lives btw here's a list of modern Christian scientists: All the important inventions were based on science that was founded by CREATIONISTS. For a list of accomplishments by creationists, see here: Carl Linn (Carolus Linnaeus) - discovered there were no halfway animal species; all fit into distinct categories.
William Paley - argument by design.
Heinrich von Helmholz - the law of conservation of energy (FLOT)
R.J.E. Clausius - the law of entropy (SLOT)
Gregor Mendel - genetics. His experiments showed that there was a genetic barrier that prevented one species from transmuting into another.
Louis Pasteur - disproved the theory of spontaneous generation - life cannot arise from nonliving material.
August Friedrich Leopold Weismann - disproved Lamarckism (mouse tail experiment)
Louis Agassiz - glacial geology; ichthyology.
Charles Babbage - actuarial tables; calculating machine; computer science
Sir Francis Bacon - scientific method
Robert Boyle - chemistry, gas dynamics
Sir David Brewster - optical minerology; kaleidoscope
Georges Cuvier - comparative anatomy; vertebrate paleontology
Sir Humphrey Davy - thermokinetics
Jean Henri Fabre - entomology of living insects
Michael Faraday - electric generator; electromagnetics; field theory
Sir John A. Fleming - electronics, thermic valve
Joseph Henry - electric motor, galvanometer
Sir William Herschel - galactic astronomy, double stars
James Joule - reversible thermodynamics
Lord William Kelvin - absolute temperature scale, energetics, thermodynamics, transatlantic cable
Johannes Kepler - celestial mechanics; ephemeris tables, physical astronomy
Carolus Linnaeus - classification system; systematic biology
Joseph Lister - antiseptic surgery
Matthew Maury - hydrography; oceanography
James C. Maxwell - electrical dynamics; statistical dynamics
Gregor Mendel - genetics
Samuel Morse - telegraph
Sir Isaac Newton - calculus; dynamics; law of gravity; reflecting telescopes
Blaise Pascal - hydrostatics; barometer
Louis Pasteur - bateriology; biogenesis law; pasteurization; vaccination; immunization
Sir William Ramsey - inert gases; isotropic chemistry
John Ray - natural history; classification of plants and animals
John Rayleigh - dimensional analysis; model analysis
Bernard Riemann - non-Euclidean geometry
Sir James Simpson - chloroform; gynecology
Sir George Stokes - fluid mechanics
Rudolph Virchow - pathology Added (06/Jun/09, 5:16 Pm)
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Quote (Menace) yes psychological studies shows that the evolution of the mind shows that but wait you don't believe in neither evolution or psychology as a science so this argument can't go somewhere
ok, forget evolution or psychology for now to try and end this argument... so how does evolution of the mind and emotions being primitive reconcile? how are emotions being imperfect proven by the idea of "evolution of the mind"?? right now i only see a hypothesis, no scientific evidence, other than "psychology says so"
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
Message edited by sodr2 - Saturday, 06/Jun/09, 5:12 PM
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| ThaScience |
Date: Saturday, 06/Jun/09, 9:10 PM | Message # 426 |
OGs
Posts: 1160
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I miised this thread so far, Evolution and the Bible cant be proven.. so woopty doo 
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| ThaScience |
Date: Saturday, 06/Jun/09, 9:29 PM | Message # 427 |
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OGs
Posts: 1160
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its not good to think about death. with the bible theres obviously alot of bs like a talking snake or something? and the ocean opened up for moses? but then evolution hasnt really come up with alot either except for some old bones..
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| I_Guy |
Date: Saturday, 06/Jun/09, 11:16 PM | Message # 428 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (sodr2) no, im not talking about that. i said SPECIATION over a long period of time...not the theory that all life forms have a common ancestor
No way man. When one species can no longer mate with another species because they have genetically grown apart (speciation) then that is fucking evolution, plain and simple. Rather everything came from one ancestor or not, what you are talking about is evolution. Speciation is simply an element of evolution. Quote (sodr2) did you finish reading my answer or what?????? i said all creation in God's eyes are considered "good."
Okay, but that doesn't explain WHY he created dead planets billions of light years away. Quote (sodr2) there is no reason for no one to come to believe in God.
Yes there is, rational thought. I’ll tell you why the high intellectuals don’t believe in religion. Because they have superior minds. They are elevated far beyond a foolish laymen. Quote (sodr2) yeah, nice trying to escape my question about reeves
Didn’t you escape my legitimate question in the first place? Seriously though, what is your explanation for Neanderthals and other humanoids in ancient times? About the desease.
Quote (sodr2) it seems to me you don't want an answer...you're not willing to accept anything. read the story of adam and eve and you'll get your answer
So Satan invented bacteria because Adam and Eve bit some fruit. Absurd. Quote (sodr2) are you honestly telling me that there are no modern Christina scientists?
About 3% of the worlds professional scientists are religious. Quote (sodr2) what things in modern science do you claim goes against the fact that God exists?
Be careful now, we’re talking about the holy books’ God not a god in general (just a reminder).
Anyways, of course evolution, which effects almost every bio-science there is, which then puts those sciences against religion. Off the top of my head:
Astronomy
Physics
Chemistry
Geology
I would say almost every science field there is.
Should I bring up the long history of Religion persecuting science?
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| I_Guy |
Date: Saturday, 06/Jun/09, 11:17 PM | Message # 429 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (sodr2) All the important inventions were based on science that was founded by CREATIONISTS.
The fact that they may have founded some simple scientific ideas means nothing. They were still within the realm of human wonderment. What they discovered was still possible under a god. They were not yet on the brink of groundbreaking discoveries that slice religion to pieces like scientists now-a-days are a part of of. And of course you listed a bunch of historical scientists that I already explained doesn't apply here. Everyone you listed is from the 1700s, the 1800s and earlier, a point at which science was nowhere near as understood as it is today. Science is far more complex than science was back them. You present that list as if it is significant. Do you think the scientists were more informed back then than modern scientists are today? Of course not. Scientists today understand what the historical scientists understood, and much much more. If those rational minds from back then knew what scientists know today, who knows what they would truly believe. I doubt they would fall for religion. Many of them grew up in theocratic societies and went to schools controlled by religion because those schools were the wealthiest. Besides, secularity didn’t even really exist back then so basically everyone went to a school with religious influence. It was practically unavoidable. Rather some of these guys were religious or not, they were beginning to discover ideas that are in direct contradiction to religion. Therefore you are presenting scientists that helped begin the destruction of your religion by science. So really it’s kind of funny. August Friedrich Leopold Weismann was a fucking major evolutionary theorist second to Charles Darwin. What the fuck are you talking about here? Check your sources. This is exactly what I'm talking about, creationists will exagerate any trace of religion in a scientist's life to make them seem like they are on the side of religion. Straight up deceptional bullshit. Carolus Linnaeus was mentioned twice. Was that just to make the list seem longer? Newton was a skeptic. Now give me a list like that of modern scientists. Besides a list of unreligious (or even antireligious) scientists would dwarf your puny list of historical scientists and discoveries. This video is perfect for this. Don't ignore it. And don't be put off by the fire explaination halfway through. It all leads to a point.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| I_Guy |
Date: Saturday, 06/Jun/09, 11:19 PM | Message # 430 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (ThaScience) but then evolution hasnt really come up with alot either except for some old bones..
ignorant
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| ThaScience |
Date: Sunday, 07/Jun/09, 9:20 AM | Message # 431 |
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OGs
Posts: 1160
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Quote (I_Guy) lol ignorant 
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| Menace |
Date: Sunday, 07/Jun/09, 2:14 PM | Message # 432 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (ThaScience) but then evolution hasnt really come up with alot either except for some old bones.. 200 years of scientific evidence
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Sunday, 07/Jun/09, 3:30 PM | Message # 433 |
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OGs
Posts: 2772
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Quote (I_Guy) No way man. When one species can no longer mate with another species because they have genetically grown apart (speciation) then that is fucking evolution, plain and simple. Rather everything came from one ancestor or not, what you are talking about is evolution. Speciation is simply an element of evolution.
OKAY, SO what if its an aspect of evolution? fine, it's evolution, are you happy? Quote (I_Guy) Okay, but that doesn't explain WHY he created dead planets billions of light years away.
ok, bear with me here...
1. good things usually PLEASE you
2. planets billions of light years away were considered good
3. therefore God found it pleasing in His eyes. now you're not God to say what He likes or what He doesnt Quote (I_Guy)
Yes there is, rational thought. I’ll tell you why the high intellectuals don’t believe in religion. Because they have superior minds. They are elevated far beyond a foolish laymen.
NAME ***ONE*** THING THATS SO ILLOGICAL ABOUT CHRISTIANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!! !!!!!!
YOU CLAIM ITS ILLOGICAL BUT I HAVENT SEEN ****************ONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE********************** THING THAT YOU CLAIM IS SO FOOLISH ABOUT IT
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
Message edited by sodr2 - Sunday, 07/Jun/09, 3:30 PM
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| ill |
Date: Sunday, 07/Jun/09, 3:32 PM | Message # 434 |
Emcees
Posts: 2087
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Quote (sodr2) NAME ***ONE*** THING THATS SO ILLOGICAL ABOUT RELIGION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
YOU CLAIM ITS ILLOGICAL BUT I HAVENT SEEN
****************ONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE**********************
THING THAT YOU CLAIM IS SO FOOLISH ABOUT IT god
The World Is Yours
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| s0dr2 |
Date: Sunday, 07/Jun/09, 3:34 PM | Message # 435 |
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OGs
Posts: 2772
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Quote (I_Guy)
So Satan invented bacteria because Adam and Eve bit some fruit. Absurd.
bacteria always existed...but since we were separated from God, we became subjected to suffering from it Quote (I_Guy) About 3% of the worlds professional scientists are religious.
did you see my list??? and PLEASE show me your source for this....im not saying its false, but im intrigued Quote (I_Guy) Astronomy
Physics
Chemistry
Geology
I would say almost every science field there is.
that doesn't cut it at all....you give EXAMPLES not names of very very general fields of scienceAdded (07/Jun/09, 3:34 Pm)
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please stop responding unless you have something to say....give me examples not general one word responses
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
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