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Religion: Real or Fake
I_Guy Date: Tuesday, 21/Apr/09, 1:52 AM | Message # 1

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What began this thread:
http://realhiphop4ever.ucoz.com/forum/12-1890-1

Religious folks need to give up.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
EmSeeD Date: Monday, 27/Apr/09, 10:41 PM | Message # 106

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yeah probably, but for real the media only show what sells, sex, violence, fear, etc.

http://chirbit.com/emseed
http://youtube.com/siwooot
I_Guy Date: Monday, 27/Apr/09, 11:58 PM | Message # 107

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Quote (Pensmoke)
You have to approach spiritual matters in humility in a humble way. You ever notice how you never come across any humble atheists?

Atheists don't appear humble only to religious followers. Atheists don't seem humble because in most cases they are not humble to religious people. This is usually because they think religion is completely ridiculous and doesn't deserve the respect or tolerance it thinks it does. So it appears to not be humble. But this behavior is justified because religion itself is not justified in it's demand for the respect and tolerance. But it's funny because most major religious leaders are arrogant and cocky, yet pretend and claim to be humble. And see that's one thing you shouldn't do. You shouldn't claim you yourself is humble. That is for others to decide. That's like going around and saying "I'm gangsta!" That's something you have to prove and for others to determine. That's why you never hear a real gangster saying "I'm gangsta." In the same way, no would should say "I'm humble." Anyways most religious leaders aren't truly humble, and here is one major reason why: They are completely certain that their belief is the truth. Being skeptical is humble because it isn't absolute. Most real atheists don't think they are absolutely right, they just believe that most other things are wrong (primarily religious ideas). There is a big difference there. It's humble to say "I don't know" or "I'm not sure," it's not humble to say the opposite.

But you may say "Nuh uh, atheists always think they're right, always!" Atheists seem this way because they only think they are "righter" than religion (because religion has no foundation upon which they can claim truth). Most real Atheists do not claim to have the answers for sure. They simply see themselves as on the right trail (or at least on the most reasonable trail) leading to the truth (which is actually indefinable, and again you should know that atheists for the most part don't believe in "Truth" they believe in facts and they believe in getting close to the truth using empirical evidence). But see, this is where you religious people fail. You think you have the answers and falsely parade them about as truth. But see, atheists may parade, but they only parade the evidence (setting them close to the truth, but not achieving the actual truth). That's how atheists can remain humble and still seem so damn arrogant. Because they have a magic tool called evidence. Evidence does not equal truth. But facts require evidence. An accumulation of facts equals the proximity of truth. Therefore, proclaiming truth is not humble, but there is nothing wrong with proclaiming factual evidence. Religious folks don't have evidence, therefore they seem straight arrogant off the bat and there is no middle ground because you can't proclaim the truth without factual evidence and somehow see yourself as humble.

Quote (Pensmoke)
How do you propse making a song by that title while all the while looking down your nose at the next man because he believes in something you do not? No offense intended man I am really asking this question for an answer.

Because of what I said above ^^^ You see you got it all wrong. I'm fine with someone believing in something that I don't. It all depends on the legitimacy by which they get to that belief. There are logical boundaries to securing a justifiable belief. If you ignore these boundaries, your belief loses legitimacy and validity, and therefore respect. There are plenty of other beliefs on the same level as atheism that I respect, because they have legitimate means to get to that justifiable belief. Without that, your beliefs aren’t valid.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 0:29 AM | Message # 108

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No, that's bullshit. No matter how ridiculous a belief is it should be respected as long as it doesn't impede on someone else's belief. That's why if you notice the only time I argue with Pen or sodr is when their belief actually threatens a belief I have, which is rare. Cases like homosexuality, for example, are some of the few things I get into EDUCATED and RESPECTFUL arguments with them through.

That being said, Pen, are you simply taking in to account the fact that I don't consider myself an atheist or are you lumping me in with the atheists? Because if you are, why do you always forget how humble and respectful I approach my arguments? This is how I look at it. When you break it all down it comes down to this: one of several things happened and the universe (or at least illusion of the universe) was created. Whether it have been a cyclical universe, an eternal universe, an eternal being who created the universe, or the fact that nothing TRULY exists, it is all separate belief. I just happen to lean specifically towards the belief that the universe is eternal. That has no more merit than what you believe. Is that not humble?


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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

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s0dr2 Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 0:33 AM | Message # 109

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Quote (eboyd)
This is how I look at it.

ie OPINION

Quote (eboyd)
When you break it all down it comes down to this: one of several things happened and the universe (or at least illusion of the universe) was created. Whether it have been a cyclical universe, an eternal universe, an eternal being who created the universe, or the fact that nothing TRULY exists, it is all separate belief.

suuuuuuuuure, there is belief....
you know what else there is? evidence that leads to belief.

you know what's evidence? God and His plan, as revealed by His prophets and confirmed by witnesses, all of which are contained in the Bible

Quote (eboyd)
I just happen to lean specifically towards the belief that the universe is eternal. That has no more merit than what you believe. Is that not humble?

you can be humble, but still far from the truth


"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain



Message edited by sodr2 - Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 0:34 AM
eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 0:47 AM | Message # 110

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Dude, see, this is the problem and the reason that it is so hard for me not to get upset with a lot of theologians sometimes. No doubt I have utmost respect, but it baffles me that you cannot see the hypocrisy in the approach you take at arguing with me and others who believe the same. You get mad when we tell you that you are wrong, but when I succumb to the idea that at the end of the day it is all just unproven theory coming from both ends and neither have more merit than the other, you come back and tell me I'm wrong and I will only find the truth when I succumb to your beliefs and belief, word for word, what is contained in the bible. To expect that of me is hypocrisy. I wouldn't accuse you of such, but is there a better term for it? You expect me not to do something, I don't do it, then you do exactly what you told me not to do. Idk what truer hypocrisy there is.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 0:49 AM | Message # 111

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Btw, how many times do I have to state that everything I believe is simply opinion before you realize that I recognize that everything I say is simply opinion? Lol!

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

I_Guy Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 0:54 AM | Message # 112

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Quote (eboyd)
No, that's bullshit. No matter how ridiculous a belief is it should be respected as long as it doesn't impede on someone else's belief. That's why if you notice the only time I argue with Pen or sodr is when their belief actually threatens a belief I have, which is rare. Cases like homosexuality, for example, are some of the few things I get into EDUCATED and RESPECTFUL arguments with them through.

That's the problem, religion impedes my beliefs in science and my beliefs in logic (and people awareness of such). That is one of the central issues.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 0:55 AM | Message # 113

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Quote (8Diagrams)
Depends on how clear you are.

i've stated, EXPLICITLY, that i do not feel that everything i believe is fact on every religion and politics based thread and in just about every religious argument. i don't know how much more clear i can be. i'd dig up comments in which i have done this, but that would take FOREVER. just look at the comment above the one you quoted though.


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

I_Guy Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 0:58 AM | Message # 114

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Quote (eboyd)
That has no more merit than what you believe. Is that not humble?

It may have the merit, but it doesn't have the logic.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
s0dr2 Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 0:59 AM | Message # 115

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Quote (eboyd)
You get mad when we tell you that you are wrong

oh, now you're telling me i'm WRONG?? because of no proof? argument from ignorance anyone??

Quote (eboyd)
when I succumb to the idea that at the end of the day it is all just unproven theory coming from both ends and neither have more merit than the other, you come back and tell me I'm wrong and I will only find the truth when I succumb to your beliefs and belief, word for word, what is contained in the bible.

unproven theory? did u hear what i said? PEOPLE.....witnessssssssssssss things.....you write them down for the next generations....theory proven.
quote me where i said you were wrong. the idea of atheism is not plausible, but it is also not absurd. our God is a hidden God, and just because you can't see Him, demand for *scientific* evidence (which is illogical since He exists outside of science), unwilling to strive to come to the truth all of these things will get you no where.....again, you need to be humble. i mention the evidence in the Bible (no, its not ONE book), yet you respond with your frustration on how i'm apparently a hypocrite.

lets set aside this discussion....tell me why you don't believe in the Bible. (no, its not one book)


"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

I_Guy Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 1:00 AM | Message # 116

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Quote (sodr2)
you know what's evidence? God and His plan, as revealed by His prophets and confirmed by witnesses, all of which are contained in the Bible

...which is not backed by EMPIRICAL evidence.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
eboyd Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 1:00 AM | Message # 117

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Quote (I_Guy)
That's the problem, religion impedes my beliefs in science and my beliefs in logic. That is one of the central issues.

please explain how it does so. you are still free to research whatever you want, you are free to do whatever you want, etc.


my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

I_Guy Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 1:06 AM | Message # 118

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Quote (sodr2)
again, you need to be humble

You Sir, are not humble with that kind of shit. That whole comment as a matter of fact.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
s0dr2 Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 1:07 AM | Message # 119

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Quote (8Diagrams)
I've actually kind of given up on my Muslim faith, btw.

amazing.

Added (28/Apr/09, 1:07 Am)
---------------------------------------------

Quote (I_Guy)
You Sir, are not humble with that kind of shit. That whole comment as a matter of fact.

how about you ***--->>>QUOTE<<<---*** me and explain how im not humble


"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

I_Guy Date: Tuesday, 28/Apr/09, 1:09 AM | Message # 120

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Quote (eboyd)
please explain how it does so. you are still free to research whatever you want, you are free to do whatever you want, etc.

As in how they try to limit science in schools (although they usually fail do to some of the rational minds in control). And how primarily creationism and apologetics bash science in an attempt to make science seem evil. Creationism straight out lies about science to make it seem evil. And because of what I have said numerous times: it restrains humanity in far too many ways.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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