i think praying to saints and mary is wrong man, and i know catholics do that coz i've gone to catholics schools all my life (but im not a catholic). catholics even used to leave out the last line of the "The Lords Prayer" coz of something to do with mary i think. and i don't like the way they look up to or treat the pope either, they've clearly adopted these things from the old Roman religions.

saints are our *intercessors*, only God can help people, but saints can ask God on our behalf....

--------->> and this is proven in the bible <<----------

John 2:1-4
On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”

----> Jesus could not do miracles yet because His ministry did not start yet, BUT Mary asked Jesus to help those in need <----

And we all know what happens, here's the rest of the story:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202%20;&version=50;

Added (05/Apr/09, 9:53 Pm)
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i'll agree with you on the whole pope thing, but lets not point fingers here. the pope is a man of God.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

It's ok 2 look up 2 heroes for inspiration... Religion was created for people to enjoy and learn wholesome lessons from to teach our families...

But of course, human nature runs rampant and everything turns into : 'Well this God has superpowers, or bleeds through his teeth, "

Most of the ideals are intact, but the dates were changed, things that happened, who was there... etc.. what it means....

The whole point of any of it (imo) was to bring people together, and keep them away from unethical behavior.. and give people a sense of belonging, in a world where questions could not be answered...

Then it was divided and watered down, and given comic book ink to flare it up.... and get people to convert, gain stature and yep you guessed it power... bc man runs the church and man wants power...

I have much respect for religions like Islam and Judaism.. They seem like they have a good solid belief system... but the violence has got to stop all around or nothing will be left to fight over. It doesn't seem like we can even have a calm discussion about the mis-perceptions many have about Catholicism...
People refuse understand that the Bible has flaws, just like the Koran... And should not be interpreted as a book of laws.. it is a collection of stories and guidelines written by prophets..
prophets who most likely were tripping on mushrooms or excellent storytellers....(Ezekiel)

My prayers were answered by the Saints. Most of the time they were not. The Saints couldn't save my Mom. And that's when i lost my faith in them...

"People said his brain was infected by Devils..."

not the current pope

that doesn't prove anything, it was his first miracle.

tell me, would he have done this miracle if Mary didn't ask Him?? of course not, it wasn't His time yet.

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

OK, let's hear your opinion on these. i found their opinions to be pretty spot on personal. actually, they seemed like facts to me, not opinions.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

on spot? By saying the bible has flaws without mentioning anything? i *explained* how we can pray to saints by that passage, seed only said "nope, doesnt prove anything"

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

this is a pretty vague statement as well and i was asking you to expand on it.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

like this whole thread is dedicated to the contradictory elements of of the bible and the contradictory beliefs of certain religious people even you admitted that you agree to disagree even your own mind is not made up even tough we both quoted the actual bible

man you're too quick to put other peoples opinions down, you gotta understand religion is not 100% the truth and thats why people quetsion it, just because you cant see the flaws doesnt mean there aren't any.

The World Is Yours

well you cant describe religion like that because then you would be describing every single religion...different religions were created for different purposes....do you think moses faked the 10 commandments and told every1 that they should stone people for disobeying his commands? would this be enjoyable for families? unlike mormonism, which was created for families

there are stories in every religious book that talk about stoning people and other gruesome things. the point is that the books, in general, are there for parents to teach to their children at a young age to give them moral guidelines, whether wrong or right.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0