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Reasons for Workers Self-Management! Bosses Are Inefficient
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| Menace |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 4:24 PM | Message # 16 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
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" human nature " can't have a major effect on a decentralized system or society it's impossible
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| 11thPlague |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 4:25 PM | Message # 17 |
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Quote (howsyourmom) good luck being an entrepreneur
i'm sure you'll last a day or two before you concede and get a job at wal-mart. lol Who was that aimed at? What do you do homie?
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| Chinita |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 4:39 PM | Message # 18 |
Heads
Posts: 5823
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Quote (Menace) If you know more than your boss, they will try to get you fired or harass you so you will quit or make mistakes they can use against you to get you fired. They will tell you things like "I want to help you" or "you are overqualified". When you hear this, you will know the end is near.
i have experience this one before...i remember this boss i had that did nothing, she made me do everything in this business.. took all the credit for it, i think she felt threatend.. Quote (Menace) How are workers paid?
- The workers decide how much of the income earned by their work goes to keep the business going and how much goes to them as compensation for their labor.
- Without "make work" from bosses, every job becomes equally necessary: both physical work and brain work. The workers may choose to each take an equal share or to pay everyone based on how many hours they work.
not bad, i love that plan  those plans might work for both the business owner and the workers together..i like it.. i have experienced all that in jobs and many are not fare and dont give a dam about u..some companies but not all.. i've also had bosses that were fare with me..but i can put myself in both shoes because i was also a manager and supervised many for years though and its very hard to find good dedicated workers. many slack off without any one there on top of them making decisions, some come in late esepcially those in the 20's, the women would rather do their hair and make up than work, do nothing and expect to get paid.. we have a few family businesses and again so hard to find good decent dedicated workers no matter how much u pay them..if we are not there they slack off with no care in the world because its not their business and its not fare, if u turn ur back some have even stolen money. now the dedicated workers get paid what they deserve and are happy whenever i work, i just treat it like its my own business and take my job very seriously because to me i made a dedication so this plan might work especially for the ones that work hard, it should be noticed and deserve the promotions and not the ones that slack off.
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| 11thPlague |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 4:45 PM | Message # 19 |
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Quote (LadyChinita) its very hard to find good dedicated workers. many slack off without any one there on top of them making decisions, some come in late esepcially those in the 20's, the women would rather do their hair and make up than work, do nothing and expect to get paid..
we have a few family businesses and again so hard to find good decent dedicated workers no matter how much u pay them..if we are not there they slack off with no care in the world because its not their business and its not fare, if u turn ur back some have even stolen money. now the dedicated workers get paid what they deserve and are happy
whenever i work, i just treat it like its my own business and take my job very seriously because to me i made a dedication so this plan might work especially for the ones that work hard, it should be noticed and deserve the promotions and not the ones that slack off. CoSign
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| eboyd |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 4:55 PM | Message # 20 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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This is only really in reference to big business I think. Small businesses will run just the same because in small business (I mean like mom and pop, nothing bigger) it's usually only an owner and a few workers under him/her. The only thing changing in this instance is that 1. the workers will have more say in the operations of the business IF THEY SO CHOOSE TO and 2. they will make higher wages depending on what job they are doing. And you say Walmart? Unless companies like Walmart can be more humane they won't exist in such an economy. That style of business, if not made illegal, will be HEAVILY restricted and companies such as Walmart will either have to conform or disappear. This does not mean that the corporation will disappear altogether though, because we all know many good things have come from them. They just need to have less power and can't have any specific individual (a CEO) in charge of everyone and everything (except for his/her other corporate officers, ie: the CFO, etc) because when you create hierarchy you create a power structure. Instead, if any leader at all, an emergent leader will take charge, but the best companies will be equally run by many individuals of the same status. People will get paid what everyone agrees they should get paid, there will be meetings where everyone will be allowed to come, but not required, and those that show initiative will be involved in the decision making process. It's not much different than what we are already used to so it won't be difficult to adapt. Only difference is we are severing the power structure.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| Menace |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 5:05 PM | Message # 21 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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right on point Erik !! and people seem to sub estimate the survival instinct of humans in such workplaces if you don't participate you don't survive initiative lacking is counter productive so lacking initiative will get you fired by the collective so Chinita's point is irrelevant cause having no boss doesn't mean having no authority
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| eboyd |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 5:15 PM | Message # 22 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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I don't think chinita was trying to counter that though. She was agreeing with us.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| 11thPlague |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 5:24 PM | Message # 23 |
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Too bad it will never work
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| Menace |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 5:34 PM | Message # 24 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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no i mean the point about people slacking as now people who will slack will get no skins its simple in fact it will be more quicker cause the collective will be affected directly by his/hers actions so they will get rid of him more quickly and 11thplague instead of countering this idea whit something relevant as J breakz does tough even J breakz admitted this system can work 11thplague brings some baby arguments
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| eboyd |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 5:40 PM | Message # 25 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Wow dude. I practically spelled out for you how it will work. You don't need to majority to be hardworking, for one. Secondly, the majority of people ARE in fact hard working. And it's not like the majority will be doing the brain work that is usually done by the people whoi have been educated for many years to do so. If they so choose they want to do that work, and people agree that person is qualified to do so, they will do that work. The grocery store cashier won't be handling corporate tasks unless they choose to and the workers around them agree that person is qualified to do so. Why don't you READ what this is about and not just assume by the title that this won't work. We're already proving it works with this site. If it didn't then why is it that this movement is progressing daily and we are now working on a partnership with Temple of Hip Hop? Plain and simple, the only change occuring from this is we are getting rid of the power structure. It won't be such a monumental change that it screws up the way our lives run. It will be able to be implemented without having to change daily routines.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| Chinita |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 5:47 PM | Message # 26 |
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Heads
Posts: 5823
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Quote (eboyd) She was agreeing with us.
 yea i was agreeing lol with it, its needed and it could change the way people work if they had more say, a word..maybe they would take their work seriously than some do now.. its like companies that offers "profit shareing" if u notice alot of the employees put in more effert in their work or that business because they know that the higher the profits comeing in that year, the bigger that check will be for them..these companies provide payments to employees that depend on the company's profitability in addition to their regular salaries and bonuses so they know if they all work hard as a team in every department they will all profit in the end..i think all companies should offer profit shareing..
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| Chinita |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 5:50 PM | Message # 27 |
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Heads
Posts: 5823
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Quote (Menace) no i mean the point about people slacking as now people who will slack will get no skins its simple in fact it will be more quicker cause the collective will be affected directly by his/hers actions so they will get rid of him more quickly
yea thats why i agreeed because there are people that slack off and i seen it to many times..this plan would change that because they will get noticed as one of those slackers by others, he'll have a say himself and maybe he won't slack..or like u said, he'll be gone quicker..
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| Menace |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 5:57 PM | Message # 28 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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Quote (LadyChinita) profit shareing this idea that i posted is a more extended version of that in profit sharing you got the Board of Directors deciding the actual profit sharing and the surpluss in this instance the workers themselves are deciding everything if some people are thinking how this will work whit multinational companies well it's easy the CEO position is abolished and people elect their delegates from their workplaces to represent them and the delegates will not have a decision making power they will be given the decisions from the assemblies of workers and the delegate will go to meet whit other delegates and they will exchange the decisions and every delegate will come back and present the others decisions and debate whatever it's good or not and i want to add that in a multinational company every sub company is AUTONOMOUS not like in these centralized companies now days
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| 11thPlague |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 6:07 PM | Message # 29 |
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I did read all that stuff just because my answers are simple doesnt mean i dont understand it im saying that IT WONT WORK i just dont think it will. Its all good if yall believe it works i mean it sounds so so good on paper. And it would be wonderful if it could work that easily but their is too many intangibles in that effort that i just dont think it can work. the big one being HUMAN NATURE
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| Menace |
Date: Friday, 03/Apr/09, 6:13 PM | Message # 30 |
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Heads
Posts: 6764
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human nature is subjective what you said some people said 200 years ago when the idea of Representative Democracy was extended human nature is the weakest argument that one can bring if you are so over confident that human nature can fuck this up why centralization is so bad then ?? hope is lost lets centralize everything
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