And yet again, I am with Erik here. THE BOMBING WAS NOT JUSTIFIED. THE BOMBING WAS A HORRIBLE THING TO DO. But his critique of the United States government was quite accurate, if not spot on, in my opinion.

McVeigh quit because he didn't get to join the Special Forces. He was just a mentally unstable person. Praising this person would the same as praising Seung-Hui Cho for the shooting at virginia tech.

this is exactly the problem right here. this is the reason America gets bombed in the first place. people automatically equate supporting a terrorist's critique of something as supporting their actions. this is completely and blatantly fallacious. what it does is helps us understand the minds of the frustrated and voiceless people that are mentally and/or ideologically unstable so that we can prevent such actions before they occur. you don't, for example, ignore the quiet kid who gets bullied everyday at school or else his bullying is going to continue and he's going to get angrier and angrier and if unchecked, a school shooting may be the result. in Chomsky's book 9-11 he put it best in my opinion:

"The second question is: "why?" This question is rarely raised in any serious way.
To refuse to face this question is to choose to increase significantly the probability of further crimes of this kind."

p. 27

though this is referring specifically to 9-11, it applies to all similar atrocities including the bombing of the Murrah Buildings.

if we understand McVeigh's reasoning and sympathize with his concern (without, of course, looking at his actions as "just"), we can begin to evaluate the events that lead to the atrocity and actively attempt to prevent further occurrences. the fact of the matter is that McVeigh's concerns were just and so we have provided a sick individual with a reason, regardless of how ill-informed and unrighteous, to commit an atrocity. it is quite probable that the bombing would have never happened had there not been such ample opportunity for an abuse of power, which McVeigh criticizes in detail.

you're right. comparing a non-hierarchic, extremist, decentralized militia of Islamic fundamentalists to a non-hierarchic, extremist, decentralized militia of radical American conservatives is completely unfounded (i'm with you on our need for a :rolleyes: smiley).

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erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Finding out what the kid's motives were is a key to prevention for future occurrences, as well as psychoanalysis. It doesn't need to be publicly broadcast that we are listening to what he has to say. Rather proper care should simply be taken to find his motives. A great way to find these motives and do psychoanalysis without making actual contact with him is to read anything he has written. On top of that, the reader may learn something they did not previously know (of course after carefully checking the facts).

That's a false comparison. Timothy McVeigh can't be compared to the Taliban. His militia, however, while smaller in size, can. McVeigh can, however, be compared to Osama. Both have US military training and neither was directly affected by things the US did, though people they associated with through their terrorist organizations were.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

And Osama is a fuckin nutcase, too. Are you saying we should be considering killing all the jews, eliminating music, eliminating technology, rejecting pre-marital sex, gambling, etc? Because wants to kill or control every civilian that is considered a heretic to him, American or not. That's what he believes as a Wanhabi

What I mean is that he wasn't in his right mind when he committed that act.

In my opinion, his thoughts and actions were governed by outside forces that day.

I personally don't believe in the death penalty. I believe it is a crude form of punishment. I think most nonviolent criminals (on the exception, for example, of people who commit fraud on a large scale) should be released from prison -- for example, a drug criminal or a prostitute -- because those "crimes" are simply crimes because of corrupt authority. That way, we can focus our efforts on criminals whose continued freedom would actually be harmful to society. Prison should then also be focused more on proper psychiatric care of an individual rather than punishment and condemnation, though it should be recognized that certain individuals, using the fraud criminal again as an example, are not going to change with psychiatric care, and so being locked away for a while and not allowed to take up specific work in society when they are released is the proper course for punishing such an individual. McVeigh would likely be treated in such a way, though he likely would never be released. Being that there is a risk of him being influential in further crimes, such a criminal should be denied contact with the outside world (except maybe legal representation, though I'm not exactly sure how that should work yet). It's as simple as that. We should still, however, study such an individual and try to understand the way his/her brain functions and understand why such a crime was committed. If it is found that these crimes can be tied to a specific injustice in society, that should also be evaluated.

Bringing up the fact that Osama wants to kill Jews and eliminate music is dumb though. That's like assuming that someone condones the murder of jews just because he read Mein Kampf and noticed that not every thought of Hitler's was horrific.

Ok, but you called him a scapegoat. Who/what was responsible if not McVeigh? Or did you mean that he used the FBI and others he disagreed with as a scapegoat for his terrible crimes?

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

Ok.............. ? I know this. That's why I sympathize with the Palestinians. Islam isn't necessarily inherently anti-semitic, but it is true that many Muslims are. What's your point?

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0