dude, it's not like his bodyguard was rolling in a Honda Civic through the hood by himself or even a single Escalade. he was rolling in an ENTOURAGE OF ESCALADES which just so happens to be EXACTLY what Lil Wayne rolls in and was rolling in while signing autographs. come on now... mathematics... it works, i swear.

i never said that it was proof of him being in the Escalade, and if i did (i'm too lazy to go back and look lol) that was not my intention.

mine DOES though. it has the whole time. half of my argument (the three factors in that guy's video) is based on proof that he was in the car at the situation, the other half (the part where i am talking about his silence) is based on the fact that even if he wasn't in the Escalade, he's still, as my friends who are thugs would call him, "bitch made".

no, this whole thread is about that and my entire argument revolves around that so please do not divert the argument.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html

possible, but given how rap works, when you are the top dog and you don't respond, that hurts your career. the people that listen to hip hop and know about the incident (it was publicized and a lot of people saw it, or at least enough to possibly lose Wayne a lot of fans) would lose respect for him for doing nothing, especially if he's trying to appeal to gang members or make himself sound like a gang member by saying "SOO-WOOT!" in his music. so regardless of whether or not he was trying to give him shine, it got publicized enough to where he needed to respond or fans would lose respect for him, unless he was actually scared of something far worse than loss of record sales. maybe he wised up and realized that if he kept claiming he was going to end up dead.

i'm sorry for not being a law major and not knowing the terms when it comes to American law. either way, it is most definitely circumstantial and since when is circumstantial evidence not reliable? we have to rely solely on circumstantial evidence when it comes to many aspects of science. for example, the theory of relativity is solely based on circumstantial evidence (evidence from experimentation and mathematical proof) but it is one of the most wide spread and agreed upon theories in existence.

YOU argue that you succeeded, but let's recap here: you gave me a series of videos of 2pac discussing what he did and claiming "Thug Life" and all that, and one video where Mopreme is talking about 2pac shooting cops and evidence of him being in court for it BUT there's also the fact that the cops had broken his window and were assaulting him FOR NO REASON and that fact STOOD UP IN COURT. if my dad had a gun with him (yes, my dad occasionally takes his gun with him illegally, especially when going through a bad neighborhood, just to make sure we're safe) and he was getting assaulted by police officers he probably would have shot them too. my dad isn't a thug and that fact wouldn't make him a thug. a majority of what you presented is hearsay. i presented a video that, using circumstantial evidence, shows that it is very likely that Lil Wayne is not as hard as he claims to be and probably not a "thug" or affiliated with the bloods.

no, you aren't for the aforementioned reason.

holes, yes. there are holes in the theory of evolution, but we still trust it because it is our best bet.

btw, man, wtf happened to me????? i didn't used to be such an asshole!!! man, i'm sorry. it's just those comments about white people "not knowing" just because we're white, i've heard them so many times that they just struck a chord. i'm very sorry. i am glad that you have given up this attitude of "winning" (with me at least) though.

btw, J-Breakz, if you read this, if i came off like that in the "Anarcho-Capitalist" thread (seemingly like it was all about winning, which is something you pointed out, though i wasn't trying to do that), i'm sorry

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

If you are implying that 2Pac wasn't a thug, you have been dearly mistaken.

Once again, all that proves is that the entourage of Escalades may have been similar to Wayne's Escalade entourage. It does not provide proof that Wayne was in the vehicle.

Well, I'm glad we can agree on that.

If that was the basis of your argument then I will stand down, seeing as how I could care less whether Wayne has any street credibility or not. I simply don't care. I will defend Pac, but I don't care that much about Wayne to defend his actions.

Ok, congratulations, Lil Wayne is bitch made. Lol I don't know what else to say because all I'm arguing was that we can't prove he was in the vehicle.

Lol "divert the argument"? So now your argument is that Lil Wayne is not a hardened criminal? You can have that. One point for eboyd.

Post as many links as you want, silence is not a solid indicator to guilt. Never has been.

It's "Soo-Woo", actually ... But I'm sure you knew that being from Los Angeles and all.

You're still reading my posts with your eyes half closed. I never said circumstantial evidence wasn't reliable. What I said is that you have no direct proof that Lil Wayne was in the vehicle. That is ALL that I said. I even went as far as saying not only is it a possibility, but it is LIKELY that he was in the video. But until you can provide concrete evidence, you don't have undeniable proof.

That is true what you're saying, but your father probably has never sold crack, your father has probably never assaulted members of the Crips, your father has probably never joined in the rioting in Los Angeles, your father has probably never took felony gun charges from weapons that Junior Mafia left in his hotel room, your father has probably never been arrested for assaulting movie directors, and your father has probably never shot two let alone one police officer in his lifetime. If the 1993 police incident was the only blemish on Pac's record, then I could understand why that wouldn't necessarily make him a thug. But Pac had a track record. It has already been proven that he had been arrested mulitple times since he first arrived in Oakland, and the arrests and court cases never ceased until his death. He walked the walk, and talked the talk, any way you look at it.

Are you referring to the Los Angeles rioting? Even if it was heresay, that heresay came from not only a respected rap legend, Kool G. Rap, but out of the horses mouth himself, 2PAC. 2Pac, HIMSELF, stated that he was in fact shooting at Chinese takeouts on a movie coming out called "April 29th" ... Being that you live so close to Rodney King, you should know that April 29th is not in fact a movie starring 2Pac. It was the date in which the riots in Los Angeles were sparked. But you knew that, I'm sure.

As for the Hughes brothers assault, Pac was tried and convicted, meaning that in the eyes of the court he did in fact beat the Hughes brothers down. This is viewed as FACT. Whether you choose to accept that or not isn't my problem.

Certain incidents, like 2Pac taking the wrap for Biggie's guns is in fact heresay, but that heresay is not from a third source. It is from 2Pac himself. This doesn't make it a fact, but it is sure as hell more convincing then "this entourage looks like Wayne's entourage, so it MUST be him".

You're probably right.

I never said you didn't know shit. All I said was just because you share the same "class" as blacks, doesn't mean you go through the same social injustices we do. I'm not saying you don't experience anything we do, but with US it is at a much higher, much more alarming rate. So when you say shit like "I live 10 minutes away from where Rodney King got his ass beat" that doesn't mean anything in my eyes. Because the police aren't after YOU. They are after people who look like Rodney King. I understand the class issue as well as any other concerned minority in America, but I'm not a fool. You don't share my struggle. No hate directed at you.

Added (24/Dec/09, 7:23 Pm)
---------------------------------------------

In whose eyes?

did you know The Game recently said he made Lil Wayne and Young Jeezy become bloods lmao,

Pac became a thug (your definition) once he came to Oakland, not when he came to Death Row. Most people get confused because they only chronicle Pac's life in two instances: East Coast Pac, and West Coast Pac, but it's not hard to see that that isn't the case. It was East Coast Pac, THEN Oakland Pac (where he became immersed in the street life), THEN to Los Angeles. Pac didn't magically become a thug once he signed the dotted line to begin recording for Death Row. The street life was in him ever since he was about 17 or 18, when he first came to Marin to settle down and rehabilitate his mother.

Ok...

i disagree. he has no criminal record prior to signing his first deal and the only things he did before Death Row were 1) shooting police officers who were assaulting him, 2) take the wrap for Junior Mafia's guns (not at all a thug activity, though it is something that a thug may do), the Hughes brothers incident (which, as EmSeeD showed, may have been a lie and even if it wasn't, people that aren't thugs get in fights/beat people up all the time), and 4) catch a rape case (just like TONS of celebrities who fuck girls that then see dollar signs and sue the shit out of the artist and most of them aren't thugs). if i missed something, forgive me, and please correct me. once he got to Death Row, however, it does seem that he may have begun doing some thug shit.

btw,

^^^ the snide and condescending remarks are not appreciated and a big part of why i got heated in the first place and began using them back. i refuse to tolerate them.

my new theme song



erikboyd60@hotmail.com

"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"

-T.S. Eliot

battle record:

7-0-0

When did I ever dispute that? All I said was that he became immersed in the street life upon moving to Oakland.

2Pac's wrap sheet is not public record, so neither of us know the full extent of his criminal activities. All we know are the cases that the court allowed to be brought to light. In the link that abanks presented, it stated 2Pac had been arrested roughly 8 times during his early twenties. We don't know about the majority of those cases.

Another thing is that from what we do know, 2Pac participated in more criminal activity BEFORE Death Row, rather than after his signing. For whatever it's worth.

Began using them "back"? Pardon me, eboyd, but wasn't it you that made the first out of pocket remark in this thread? Let's take a look, shall we?

You got some nerve telling me to slow my role when it was you who threw an insult first. What, you can dish it out but can't take it in? Don't say slick shit and then reach for the kleenex when someone does it back.

Practice what you preach.

That's very true.