Is Bill Gates a Greedy Bastard?
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J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:09 PM | Message # 481 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) Another example of the diseased understanding. Something like wood would not be used. It is an inefficient product. Long lasting synthetics replace most natural resources. You didn't understand. I was merely using wood as an example. I was just making a point of how money would arise from a resource economy without control. You're just replacing currency with resources. How do you think these synthetics are made? From natural resources. How will we know how efficient processes are to make sure we are not using too much of these natural resources we have and we are able to provide for the 6,692,030,277+ ppl in this world without money? Be more specific than just global surveys.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:09 PM | Message # 482 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) If we can estimate how much oil we have left in the world, we can surely estimate everything else. Estimates of how much oil the world has have always been vague, they still are vague today. they've been saying we have 40 more years of oil for 30 years.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:10 PM | Message # 483 |
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Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) From natural resources. How will we know how efficient processes are to make sure we are not using too much of these natural resources we have and we are able to provide for the 6,692,030,277+ ppl in this world without money? Be more specific than just global surveys. Their would have to be a record kept on everything produced in accordance with how much resource is available for use. You have a puddle of water. You measure how much water is in the puddle and calculate evaporation. You scoop out cups of water to drink. You keep track of how many cups you have scooped out to know how much and how often you should be scooping according to need. In the meantime you search for other puddles in case this one runs dry. You also are investigating ways to replace the water taken to sustain the resource. You are also investigating way to artificially produce water. A global survey is of course on a global scale and much more specific, and of course complicated. Societies of the Venus Project would use LESS resources than are used to taday. Think of all the useless crap that is produced for no other reason than widget profits. And then think of all the energy it takes to produce that crap. Waste, waste, waste, exponents beyond RBE societies. Are you telling me you don't think it's possible to keep track of our resources? That would be one of the easiest things to do. Again, education is the hard part. Basically all this is, is anarcho communism, but the personal labor is replaced by technology (at some point). Can you imagine if we actually gave scientists and engineers the task of providing longlasting technology used to provide worldwide resources to everyone? They would get it done, no doubt. If the big brains of this world worked in cooperation, it could be done. An educated public would contribute substantially. It's the current system that destroys the hopes for a new system. This system would work if it could only get going. Capitalism and the unsophisticated monetary system is what holds it back, not the inadequacies of the Venus Project or anything else in anarchist communism. So blame this system, not the ideas of the new system. Quote (J-Breakz) Estimates of how much oil the world has have always been vague, they still are vague today. they've been saying we have 40 more years of oil for 30 years. I'm not sure they're really out for an honest answer, and if they are I'm not sure they'll be honest about it.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:10 PM | Message # 484 |
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Posts: 1792
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An overview of Fresco's ideas in his prime. This is 1974, all of this becomes even more possible as technology of today advances. What do you disagree with?
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:10 PM | Message # 485 |
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Posts: 2162
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Ok so let me get this straight... before we go star trek and everything, you plan to take away the freedoms of ppl. Replace our current monetary system with a more primitive monetary system (which I have showed how it is a more primitive monetary system), then attempt to control ppl psychologically (isn't that slavery?) to make sure they are informed of their purpose to serve the community, then you will rely on them to measure our resources ignoring the huge possibility of human error (especially if there's no reward for them doing a good job, a fast job, watever). Then with that research, have the people build factories and attempt to efficiently produce things for the 7 billion people we have on this planet?
livin life like some cheesy movie
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J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:10 PM | Message # 486 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (J-Breakz) There is a truck driver that delivers salt water from its source to a desalinization plant. Now if there is no reward given for the productiveness of the truck driver than it is logical that he will take his time with his job and be lazy with it. You're solution to this is to attempt to control people psychologically? and also check the failures of the collectivization of agriculture. There have always been countries that attempted to make ppl work strictly to serve the community. There fault was in their monetary system? Why are you replacing the monetary system then with a more primitive monetary system?
livin life like some cheesy movie
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J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:10 PM | Message # 487 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) Think of all the useless crap that is produced for no other reason than widget profits. And then think of all the energy it takes to produce that crap. Waste, waste, waste, exponents beyond RBE societies. Because of the efficient processes used to make things we need caused by Capitalism and the monetary system, it becomes affordable to make products that are used strictly for entertainment.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:10 PM | Message # 488 |
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Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) before we go star trek and everything Why do you say that? Quote (J-Breakz) Replace our current monetary system with a more primitive monetary system Replaced with what monetary system? Quote (J-Breakz) then attempt to control ppl psychologically Through proper education, the people would not need psychological control as long as they are rationalistic. "Control" is a bad word for it. The order would be self contained and self maintained by the psychological reactions to the system. Quote (J-Breakz) and also check the failures of the collectivization of agriculture. There have always been countries that attempted to make ppl work strictly to serve the community. There fault was in their monetary system? They failed due to their monetary system, education, and entire political structure.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:11 PM | Message # 489 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) Why do you say that? The whole venus project seems like it's based on star trek. No money, no want for material things, having machines take care of work - all that is in the star trek show. Quote (I_Guy) Replaced with what monetary system? Resource based economy. Your just replacing money with resources. Money is suppose to be a representation of a resource (which now it isn't but that because the govn't is getting involved with the dang economy, but it would be different if it was back to the gold standard. Then the govn't wouldn't be allowed to inflate the economy like the way they do. Which the reason they do is to help huge corporations continue to be lazy) And is there any evidence showing that resources are unlimited or abundant?
livin life like some cheesy movie
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J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:11 PM | Message # 490 |
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Posts: 2162
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If a country wants to provide the best education there needs to be competition. In an anarcho communist society your monopolizing everything.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:11 PM | Message # 491 |
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Posts: 13145
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Quote (J-Breakz) Money is suppose to be a representation of a resource (which now it isn't but that because the govn't is getting involved with the dang economy, but it would be different if it was back to the gold standard. gold itself has been used as currency forever anyways, so even when money was backed by gold it was just a form of currency being backed by another form of currency. i mean seriously, while gold has been used in jewelry, etc., it's common usage in early America was not for that. it was simply a form of currency. during the gold rush you could buy a beer at a pub with a spec of gold. Quote (J-Breakz) If a country wants to provide the best education there needs to be competition. In an anarcho communist society your monopolizing everything. today even large corporations such as Smart & Final are recognizing that teamwork is superior to competition. here's a brief example of someone writing about this. this article is in no way a scientific report, but it was what i found after a 3 second search, so it's just for reference purposes. i present it because i have friends who are supervisors telling me about this recent change. also, while this is on the scale of individuals rather than individual organizations, who are we to say it can't work on a larger scale before we at least try it? and no, i am not talking about statist communism or socialism, i am talking about a flat structured, anarcho-syndicalist society. we've actually had examples that arose briefly but they were crushed by political forces, corruption from power, greed, etc. ie: Spain from 1936 to 39, the kibbutzes of Israel (of which many still exist actually, though their numbers are dwindling because of the political climate), etc. http://newoldsalt.com/Competition_Versus_Teamwork
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"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
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eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:11 PM | Message # 492 |
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Posts: 13145
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http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=49649927727&topic=8122
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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eboyd |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:11 PM | Message # 493 |
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Posts: 13145
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http://www.twrpowersystem.com/
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:11 PM | Message # 494 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (eboyd) gold itself has been used as currency forever anyways, so even when money was backed by gold it was just a form of currency being backed by another form of currency. i mean seriously, while gold has been used in jewelry, etc., it's common usage in early America was not for that. it was simply a form of currency. during the gold rush you could buy a beer at a pub with a spec of gold. Thank you for helping me prove my point Quote (eboyd) today even large corporations such as Smart & Final are recognizing that teamwork is superior to competition. here's a brief example of someone writing about this. this article is in no way a scientific report, but it was what i found after a 3 second search, so it's just for reference purposes. i present it because i have friends who are supervisors telling me about this recent change. also, while this is on the scale of individuals rather than individual organizations, who are we to say it can't work on a larger scale before we at least try it? and no, i am not talking about statist communism or socialism, i am talking about a flat structured, anarcho-syndicalist society. we've actually had examples that arose briefly but they were crushed by political forces, corruption from power, greed, etc. ie: Spain from 1936 to 39, the kibbutzes of Israel (of which many still exist actually, though their numbers are dwindling because of the political climate), etc. A few years ago I found a survey that showed how private schools were cheaper and more efficient in India, I did a quick google search, this wasn't the original survey but nevertheless helps prove my point. http://74.125.155.132/search?....refox-a "Evidence suggests that private schools are both more effective in imparting learning and do so at a fraction of the unit cost of government schools." you want the best education at the cheapest price? privatize it. Think about it this way. Government schools are in districts meaning if one school decides to use a poor teaching method every other school in the district uses the same method. There's no point in changing the teaching methods, they still get the same amount of money anyways (and maybe the methods implemented require the least amount of work). However, in a profit driven system, one school might have developed a teaching method that is more effective than methods the other schools use. This one school will attract more customers and the other schools would examine their teaching methods and mimic it.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 11:12 PM | Message # 495 |
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Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) No money, no want for material things, having machines take care of work - all that is in the star trek show. That's funny and ironic, because Fresco criticizes Star Trek for the unlikeliness of war existing between such rational people. But to be real, the fact that there is a TV show that shares similarities with the Venus Project means nothing. It doesn't discredit the Venus Project in any way. Everything shares similarities with something else to some degree, but the relations are meaningless and don't effect anything. To say it is "based on Star Trek" doesn't mean anything. A money-less system is ideal, and many intellectuals share the view that future sophisticated people should have no need for money. That is a common consensus among certain intellectual circles. That's why Star Trek (and many other fictional tales) and the Venus Project share the ideas of no money no politics. Virtual relation does not equal direct influence. Quote (J-Breakz) And is there any evidence showing that resources are unlimited or abundant? No one can answer a question like this. You would have to be specific. Quote (J-Breakz) Think about it this way. Government schools are in districts meaning if one school decides to use a poor teaching method every other school in the district uses the same method. There's no point in changing the teaching methods, they still get the same amount of money anyways (and maybe the methods implemented require the least amount of work). However, in a profit driven system, one school might have developed a teaching method that is more effective than methods the other schools use. This one school will attract more customers and the other schools would examine their teaching methods and mimic it. I disagree. You are falling into a this or that fallacy.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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