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Is Bill Gates a Greedy Bastard?
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| I_Guy |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:09 AM | Message # 181 |
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Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) Things are ruled by natural laws in my society however, not a democratic govn't like yours.
Natural laws? What do you mean by that? How is money, property, and hierarchy a part of natural law? Quote (J-Breakz) I haven't done enough research on that but if they did anything unlawful, like threatened people with violence, then I think Rockefeller should be taken to court for those crimes.
There would be courts in your society? Hosted by whom? Quote (J-Breakz) What are you talking about? There are TONS of investments made everyday by banks and CEOs to entrepreneurs both rich and moderately successful and poor.
And those entrepreneurs then become rich, if not CEOs themselves.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:11 AM | Message # 182 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (eboyd) i already described how it stays at the top.
Most rich people stay rich because they know how to handle money, not because they have some evil scheme. If people wanted to they could boycott the huge corporations and just support smaller businesses. Quote (eboyd) and herein lies the problem. you care about economics. you think economics will fix everything. every problem we have is based on government getting involved in economics. but i digress.
This is the economics section... Quote (eboyd) i didn't care much about global warming until recently either. this has nothing to do with global warming. this has to do with Exxon campaigning to conceal facts that show that greenhouse gases, which are created by man-made toxins during such processes as the emission of carbon from the tailpipe of a car, are actually the leading cause of global warming and that global warming is a serious issue.  But anyways you can't assume that we are still using oil because of Exxon. And honestly, I don't see anything wrong with what Exxon did, they are allowed to do that under the 1st amendment. Quote (eboyd) no. it doesn't have to be absolute. they have swayed enough opinions to keep the issue in limbo and keep people convinced not to switch to alternative fuel.
No the reason why people haven't switched to cars using an alternative fuel is because there's not one available that's cheaper and as convenient than gas powered cars. If there weren't patents then we would be all driving in electric powered cars.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| I_Guy |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:14 AM | Message # 183 |
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Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) Most rich people stay rich because they know how to handle money, not because they have some evil scheme.
That may be true, some people may be noble people. But they have their hands in an evil scheme. The function of money, the use of money, the perversion of money, in itself is an evil scheme. Some people simply may not know it. Money is the root of all evil is true my man. Quote (J-Breakz) If the govn't didn't regulate standard oil, standard oil would remain having a majority of the market share of oil and some competitors would start looking into more efficient fuel sources
Who killed the electric car?
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:16 AM | Message # 184 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) The function of money, the use of money, the perversion of money, in itself is an evil scheme. Some people simply may not know it. Money is the root of all evil is true my man.
I thought we've been over this already. And I proved how money is used as a tool. You then tried to argue that there is no need for money if we have access to resources and started talking about communism. Then I brought up the soviet union and how it has more resources than any other country yet it failed horrible and you have yet to reply to it.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:17 AM | Message # 185 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy) Who killed the electric car?
we need to eliminate patents then we wouldn't have this problem.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:20 AM | Message # 186 |
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Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy)
Natural laws? What do you mean by that? How is money, property, and hierarchy a part of natural law?
supply and demand, work or starve, etc. Quote (I_Guy) There would be courts in your society? Hosted by whom?
Judges that are appointed by PDA's Quote (I_Guy) And those entrepreneurs then become rich, if not CEOs themselves.
Thats great! Yay! the american dream accomplished.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| I_Guy |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:32 AM | Message # 187 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) I thought we've been over this already. And I proved how money is used as a tool. You then tried to argue that there is no need for money if we have access to resources and started talking about communism. Then I brought up the soviet union and how it has more resources than any other country yet it failed horrible and you have yet to reply to it.
The Soviet Union had an incapable fascist dictator, they couldn't get away from money, and half the world was against them. Quote (J-Breakz) we need to eliminate patents then we wouldn't have this problem.
Even if some noble guy invented a new form of sustainable transportation using alternative resources (such as sunlight) at a cheap price with no patent, it is likely that if he is not shut down by corporate giants, then he would most likely be bought out and become the entrepreneur who proclaims the "American dream." Quote (J-Breakz) supply and demand, work or starve, etc.
Mutual aid is also a natural law. Quote (J-Breakz) Judges that are appointed by PDA's
Let's hope these judges can resist bribery and extortion. Quote (J-Breakz) Thats great! Yay! the american dream accomplished.
And the pool of money collects in the pockets of the fortunate few, and poverty strickens people who didn't happen to be so lucky.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:41 AM | Message # 188 |
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Posts: 13145
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Quote (J-Breakz) Most rich people stay rich because they know how to handle money, not because they have some evil scheme. If people wanted to they could boycott the huge corporations and just support smaller businesses. ...and so poor people get screwed in the process. and btw, so you're saying that corporations don't have an evil scheme but the government does? Quote (J-Breakz) This is the economics section... Politics/Economics. when there is a political topic we discuss, it involves more than just the economic and political aspect. people forget that we are talking about reality here. life. living beings. we're not talking about a machine that has no feelings and isn't effected. humans are psychologically effected in a negative way by competition in most situations. people run corporations, not machines. they effect people, not machines. this creates a dog eat dog culture where people see it as ok to get over on others by any means necessary. if we think about everything economically we lose ourselves in the process. Quote (J-Breakz) you can't assume that we are still using oil because of Exxon. no, but i can look at the facts and infer that they are doing whatever they can to assure we stay stuck on natural gas for as long as possible so that they can milk the industry for it's profits as long as they can and that they have been successful at it to some extent, if not a very large extent. Quote (J-Breakz) And honestly, I don't see anything wrong with what Exxon did, they are allowed to do that under the 1st amendment. so wait, you condone propaganda and misinformation just because you believe in freedom of expression? Quote (J-Breakz) No the reason why people haven't switched to cars using an alternative fuel is because there's not one available that's cheaper and as convenient than gas powered cars. If there weren't patents then we would be all driving in electric powered cars. why do you think they aren't available? we've researched them plenty. if we were using a system where competitive markets didn't decide the prices of things but rather cooperative markets of collectively owned businesses, we wouldn't have to worry about alternative fuel being pricey and people would look more at their moral obligation to buy alternative fuel rather than gasoline.
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:44 AM | Message # 189 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (I_Guy)
The Soviet Union had an incapable fascist dictator, they couldn't get away from money, and half the world was against them.
Which shows that your ideas of how we should shape society doesn't work. Also the fact that half the world was against them is irrelevant.
Quote (I_Guy) Mutual aid is also a natural law.
Not when it's forced upon by society.
Quote (I_Guy)
Even if some noble guy invented a new form of sustainable transportation using alternative resources (such as sunlight) at a cheap price, it is likely that if he is not shut down by corporate giants, then he would most likely be bought out and become the entrepreneur who proclaims the "American dream." Quote (I_Guy) Let's hope these judges can resist bribery and extortion.
PDA's would have to rely heavily on reputation to ensure that they will continue having customers. Quote (I_Guy)
And the pool of money collects in the pockets of the fortunate few, and poverty strickens people who didn't happen to be so lucky.
Umm, no, actually making the entrepreneur rich means that he is able to provide more jobs for people.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:51 AM | Message # 190 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (J-Breakz) Not when it's forced upon by society. too bad for you, it won't be forced on people
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:52 AM | Message # 191 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (eboyd) ...and so poor people get screwed in the process. and btw, so you're saying that corporations don't have an evil scheme but the government does?
how would poor people get screwed in the process? I thought money stays at the top so they're getting screwed already. And no I think it's corporations being able to take advantage of the government to do evil things and visa verse. Quote (eboyd) Politics/Economics. when there is a political topic we discuss, it involves more than just the economic and political aspect. people forget that we are talking about reality here. life. living beings. we're not talking about a machine that has no feelings and isn't effected. humans are psychologically effected in a negative way by competition in most situations. people run corporations, not machines. they effect people, not machines. this creates a dog eat dog culture where people see it as ok to get over on others by any means necessary. if we think about everything economically we lose ourselves in the process. Quote (eboyd) so wait, you condone propaganda and misinformation just because you believe in freedom of expression?
Yeah pretty much. You wouldn't agree that religion is pretty much that? But I don't think it would be right to ban religion.
Quote (eboyd) why do you think they aren't available? we've researched them plenty. if we were using a system where competitive markets didn't decide the prices of things but rather cooperative markets of collectively owned businesses, we wouldn't have to worry about alternative fuel being pricey and people would look more at their moral obligation to buy alternative fuel rather than gasoline.
They aren't available because of patents. And your system doesn't work because there isn't enough incentive for the people to be productive. And also the time being taken up by everyone voting on so many public issues. This would cause ur society to become inefficient and poor, then a dictatorship would arise out of it.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| J-Breakz |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 5:53 AM | Message # 192 |
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Heads
Posts: 2162
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Quote (eboyd) too bad for you, it won't be forced on people
you keep on believing that.
livin life like some cheesy movie
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| I_Guy |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 6:17 AM | Message # 193 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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Quote (J-Breakz) I thought we've been over this already. And I proved how money is used as a tool.
A tool for global destruction and ruin. Quote (J-Breakz) Which shows that your ideas of how we should shape society doesn't work. Also the fact that half the world was against them is irrelevant.
It didn't work in the circumstances in the Soviet case. However beings billions of factors interact and coalesce, we can't say that it is the system itself that is flawed. It was the building factors that affected the Soviets. Besides they wanted a state dictatorship. That is not like an anarchist cooperative society. And actually the fact that half the world was against them is relevant. Half the world was working to defeat them. And they were defeated. Quote (J-Breakz) Not when it's forced upon by society.
Then is competition being forced upon by society? Competition has no greater standing than mutual aid in the wild. Mutual aid is simply more rational. Advocating competition is advocating the primitive, painful, visceral, and irrational cycle of the wild. Advocating mutual aid is advocating the wise sophistication of rational beings. Quote (J-Breakz) PDA's would have to rely heavily on reputation to ensure that they will continue having customers.
You're starting to sound like me with the Venus Project. Anyways, are there not individuals in this society who construe themselves as reputable even though they are secretly corrupt? You have to remove the possibility for corruption, not sit around and hope people won't be corrupt. Quote (J-Breakz) Umm, no, actually making the entrepreneur rich means that he is able to provide more jobs for people.
If those jobs aren't automated ha ha. But jokes aside, the wealth gap continues to widen. No problems solved. Quote (J-Breakz) If you wanna talk about something that is not about economics we can talk about laws and stuff, I just tend to focus more about economics cuz that's what you guys bring up. This thread is called is bill gates a greedy bastard, lol.
He's talking about sociology, psychology, philosophy, etc. Quote (J-Breakz) Yeah pretty much.
You realize that spreading lies is essentially shouting "fire in the theater" right? That is an abuse of free speech. I can't believe that you accept disaster as long as a petty individual gets his bullshit rights (that we can't even really justify philosophically). This view you have is destroying the intellectual-academic fabric of America. This mentality is a complete reversal of progress. Idiots that spread destructive lies to selfishly benefit themselves, that's what you advocate. That is complete intellectual chaos, and one of the reasons for our current intellectual derailment in America. Read Idiot America. It will enlighten you. Quote (J-Breakz) And your system doesn't work because there isn't enough incentive for the people to be productive. And also the time being taken up by everyone voting on so many public issues. This would cause ur society to become inefficient and poor, then a dictatorship would arise out of it.
Our system requires a paradigm shift in values. It's a slow process.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| I_Guy |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 6:18 AM | Message # 194 |
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Heads
Posts: 1792
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And actually, I'm willing to say that the ideas of anarcho-capitalism is the root causes for WWII and fascist states.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
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| eboyd |
Date: Sunday, 17/Jan/10, 6:22 AM | Message # 195 |
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Heads
Posts: 13145
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Quote (J-Breakz) how would poor people get screwed in the process? I thought money stays at the top so they're getting screwed already. And no I think it's corporations being able to take advantage of the government to do evil things and visa verse. and you think that allowing the market to regulate itself will make it so that they won't be able to take advantage anymore, even though they are still in a competitive environment? Quote (J-Breakz) If you wanna talk about something that is not about economics we can talk about laws and stuff, I just tend to focus more about economics cuz that's what you guys bring up. This thread is called is bill gates a greedy bastard, lol. economics, politics, etc. are HEAVILY effected by issues like psychology because they are driven by people. that is why that shit is pertinent to this discussion. Quote (J-Breakz) Yeah pretty much. You wouldn't agree that religion is pretty much that? But I don't think it would be right to ban religion. i am all for not allowing religion to spread misinformation, especially widely. propaganda, misinformation, etc. are the reason that the news is so crap today and everyone complains about it. and don't twist my words and say i'm saying it's true because everyone says so. i'm saying that there's a direct correlation between deregulation of media (ie the Telecommunications Act of 1984) and what used to be news-media with integrity becoming smut entertainment posing as news and now news is quite hard to come by, especially on public television. Quote (J-Breakz) your system doesn't work because there isn't enough incentive for the people to be productive. there isn't? so working for vouchers with which you buy things, and more work equals more vouchers and more things, isn't incentive? the kibbutzen weren't productive? Zanon was a highly unproductive company in Argentina until they went under and became FaSinPat. they are highly productive now and that is on collectivist values. Quote (J-Breakz) also the time being taken up by everyone voting on so many public issues. how many times do i have to regurgitate the main value of participatory economics until it finally sinks in? people get a vote in proportion to how much the decision effects them. that limits the amount of people in the voting process and makes things happen much quicker. Quote (J-Breakz) you keep on believing that. what makes you think otherwise? and if it's true for the society i propose, what makes it not true for the society you propose?
my new theme song
erikboyd60@hotmail.com
"True poetry can communicate before it is understood"
-T.S. Eliot
battle record:
7-0-0
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