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Is Bill Gates a Greedy Bastard?
I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:34 PM | Message # 271

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Quote (J-Breakz)
no where is there talk of hierarchy. There's a method of running a business in a structure that involves a hierarchy but that does not mean we favor it, you are just free to use that method.

But by the greed you so promote, someone will take the top position. Duh?

Just look into what Karl Marx theorized. He predicted that capitalism would take over the world. AND IT HAS, just as he said. Many of his predictions are right.

Capitalism (actually Corporatism) is related to Feudalism in a way, and these big companies are becoming the kings and queens of society whom upon which all society depends, for both defense and services/goods. Just like feudalism. They are creating no way out and the further we're hurled into this vortex of greed and waste the further we are from any chance of escape. There may be a point of no return at some point. At that point society will collapse under the weight of its own apathy, ignorance, and greed. Congratulations, you advocate our end.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:34 PM | Message # 272

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Social Heirarchy Of Ants

Or what about wolves where there is an alpha male?


livin life like some cheesy movie
I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:34 PM | Message # 273

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Social Heirarchy Of Ants

Or what about wolves where there is an alpha male?


That's all bullshit. That's not actually power hierarchy. That's' just what humans interpret it as. We compare the organization of these creature to the organization that we have and call it "hierarchy." It's just a misnomer. It is sort of a "type" of hierarchy, but it's just not the type we are talking about.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:34 PM | Message # 274

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But by the greed you so promote, someone will take the top position. Duh?

Okay so you're saying that if there were to be no hierarchy then a hierarchy would be formed by the people? Karl Marx is an idiot. He came up with a system that can only work in theory.

Quote (Menace)
Capitalism involves authority and hierarchy and creates it private property rights must be protected . Rules and RULERS must be created by a state do protect them. I want to hear other arguments . There is no private property whit out a state .

that can be argued. Private property can be defended by Private defense agencies.


livin life like some cheesy movie
Menace Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:35 PM | Message # 275

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Capitalism can't work whit out a state and its done J breakz your crusade against the state its useless . Property rights are given by a state trough various bills and acts and are protected by various state laws . ;)

Quote (J-Breakz)
Social Heirarchy Of Ants

Or what about wolves where there is an alpha male?

did you actually read that ?? everything in that colony is collectively owned and the queen is not actually a queen in the human sense of the word she has no authority nor decision making power over others . Same for the alpha male . There is no need for synthetic arrangements in the animal kingdom they just know what to do and if you want to work on that basis then the state has the right to exist and monopolize everything because thats just the arrangement. The state after your theory has the right to exist . You are self refuting .


I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:35 PM | Message # 276

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He came up with a system that can only work in theory.

China? Seems to be stomping everybody right about now?


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:35 PM | Message # 277

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Quote (I_Guy)
Capitalism (actually Corporatism) is related to Feudalism in a way, and these big companies are becoming the kings and queens of society whom upon which all society depends, for both defense and services/goods. Just like feudalism. They are creating no way out and the further we're hurled into this vortex of greed and waste the further we are from any chance of escape. There may be a point of no return at some point. At that point society will collapse under the weight of its own apathy, ignorance, and greed. Congratulations, you advocate our end.

Corporatism involves the government. Any monopoly that has been created has been done with the help of the government.

Added (04/Dec/09, 7:22 Pm)
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Quote (I_Guy)

China? Seems to be stomping everybody right about now?

Lol, that's because of their return to capitalism:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009....82.html


livin life like some cheesy movie
I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:35 PM | Message # 278

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The government has no choice here. Like I said, the companies have made everything dependent upon them.

We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
Menace Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:35 PM | Message # 279

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that can be argued. Private property can be defended by Private defense agencies.

Again capitalism can't work whit out a state and its done J breakz your crusade against the state its useless . Property rights are given by a state trough various bills and acts and are protected by various state laws . Second private defense agencies are coercive authorities so you didn't eliminate coercive authority as Murray Rothbard said that anarcho-capitalism will do . In Max Weber's influential definition, the state is that organization that has a "monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory." It thus includes such institutions as the armed forces, civil service or state bureaucracy, courts, and police. You don't eliminate the state you just privatize it .


I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:35 PM | Message # 280

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Lol, that's because of their return to capitalism:

So then what are you talking about as failed? Communism in politics or communism in economics? Either way its use of communism has allowed for its emergence on the top.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:36 PM | Message # 281

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Capitalism can't work whit out a state and its done J breakz your crusade against the state its useless . Property rights are given by a state trough various bills and acts and are protected by various state laws . ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_defense_agencies

Quote (Menace)
did you actually read that ?? everything in that colony is collectively owned and the queen is not actually a queen in the human sense of the word she has no authority nor decision making power over others . Same for the alpha male . There is no need for synthetic arrangements in the animal kingdom they just know what to do and if you want to work on that basis then the state has the right to exist and monopolize everything because thats just the arrangement. The state after your theory has the right to exist . You are self refuting .

Yeah I read that. The worker ants serve the queen. Soldier ants protect the other ants. The queen has to serve them by making babies. In the same way where the CEO has to serve consumers needs. And no, I don't believe the state should exist because they impede on peoples personal freedoms.

Added (04/Dec/09, 7:28 Pm)
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Quote (I_Guy)

So then what are you talking about as failed? Communism in politics or communism in economics? Either way its use of communism has allowed for its emergence on the top.

How has communism done that? China went back to a mixed capitalist economy and now their are on the top...


livin life like some cheesy movie
Menace Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:36 PM | Message # 282

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Lol, that's because of their return to capitalism:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009....82.html

exactly China is the prime example of STATE CAPITALISM . Socialism in the true form involves direct control over the means of production not state control of the means of production . Thats why we anarchist always disliked Marx . State capitalism is a social system combining capitalism — the wage system of producing and appropriating surplus value — with ownership or control by a state apparatus. By that definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single giant corporation.


J-Breakz Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:36 PM | Message # 283

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econd private defense agencies are coercive authorities so you didn't eliminate coercive authority as Murray Rothbard said that anarcho-capitalism will do . In Max Weber's influential definition, the state is that organization that has a "monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force within a given territory." It thus includes such institutions as the armed forces, civil service or state bureaucracy, courts, and police. You don't eliminate the state you just privatize it .

It would be an agency that offers certain services. It wouldn't mean they necessarily have authority over a certain land.

Added (04/Dec/09, 7:32 Pm)
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Quote (Menace)
exactly China is the prime example of STATE CAPITALISM . Socialism in the true form involves direct control over the means of production not state control of the means of production . Thats why we anarchist always disliked Marx . State capitalism is a social system combining capitalism — the wage system of producing and appropriating surplus value — with ownership or control by a state apparatus. By that definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single giant corporation.

But i don't think the system is the best, obviously better than communism but I think they would be better off with a purer form of capitalism.


livin life like some cheesy movie

Message edited by J-Breakz - Friday, 04/Dec/09, 7:33 PM
I_Guy Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:36 PM | Message # 284

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How has communism done that?

If they had instead ALWAYS been a capitalistic economy (like most everyone else) then would they be on top now? You could call it a result of circumstance, but that we will never know.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending communism, but you can see how it contrasts your use of anarcho-capitalism (as if the term makes any sense). Your self refuting.


We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
Menace Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:36 PM | Message # 285

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Capitalism can't work whit out a state and its done J breakz your crusade against the state its useless . Property rights are given by a state trough various bills and acts and are protected by various state laws . ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_defense_agencies

A private defense agency (PDA) is a conceptualized agency that provides personal protection and military defense services voluntarily through the free market. An agency doesn't guarantee property rights the RIGHT TO OWN property is not GIVEN by these agencies is PROTECTED by these agencies . GOD how hard is this . And as i said you don't eliminate the state you just privatize it . I gave you the full definition of it there you don't eliminate coercive authority you just privatize it .

Quote (J-Breakz)
Yeah I read that. The worker ants serve the queen. Soldier ants protect the other ants. The queen has to serve them by making babies.

Nobody has coercive authority over the worker ants there is no decision making power held by anyone everyone does their own business naturally whit out any coerciveness. You can't compare a CEO whit the ants . Strip the CEO his coercive power and put him in the Queens place and he will stop being a CEO .


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