|
Is Bill Gates a Greedy Bastard?
|
|
| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:36 PM | Message # 286 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) If they had instead ALWAYS been a capitalistic economy (like most everyone else) then would they be on top now? You could call it a result of circumstance, but that we will never know. That's illogical, how can you assume that because they're on the top now that its thanks to communism. As a matter of fact the majority of people where suffering in their attempt to create a communistic govn't.
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
| I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:37 PM | Message # 287 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) That's illogical, how can you assume that because they're on the top now that its thanks to communism. As a matter of fact the majority of people where suffering in their attempt to create a communistic govn't. That's why I said it may be a result of circumstance, but we can really never know. But don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending communism, but you can see how it contrasts your use of anarcho-capitalism (as if the term makes any sense). Capitalism inherently has hierarchy no matter what. "Communistic" China is state capitalistic. You are antistate capitalism, so you are basically the opposite, but that doesn't remove the problem of capitalistic hierarchy.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:37 PM | Message # 288 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (Menace) A private defense agency (PDA) is a conceptualized agency that provides personal protection and military defense services voluntarily through the free market. An agency doesn't guarantee property rights the RIGHT TO OWN property is not GIVEN by these agencies is PROTECTED by these agencies . GOD how hard is this . And as i said you don't eliminate the state you just privatize it . I gave you the full definition of it there you don't eliminate coercive authority you just privatize it . Private Agencies don't Okay, sorry, I'm trying to clearly understand what you wrote. An agency doesn't guarantee property rights. The RIGHT TO OWN property is not GIVEN by these agencies. The RIGHT TO OWN property is PROTECTED by these agencies. Ok, I understand that. If an agency guaranteed property rights than it would be a government, no? Added (04/Dec/09, 7:45 Pm) ---------------------------------------------
Quote (Menace) Nobody has coercive authority over the worker ants there is no decision making power held by anyone everyone does their own business naturally whit out any coerciveness. You can't compare a CEO whit the ants . Strip the CEO his coercive power and put him in the Queens place and he will stop being a CEO . Well the authority would be if they don't follow their duties then they are wiped out. But i suppose that wasn't a good example and really proves nothing even if I am right. As much as the CEO seems to be a top dog they are still at the mercy of the majority. Without the majorities demand they would be nothing.
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:37 PM | Message # 289 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
|
Quote (J-Breakz) Well the authority would be if they don't follow their duties then they are wiped out. But i suppose that wasn't a good example and really proves nothing even if I am right. As much as the CEO seems to be a top dog they are still at the mercy of the majority. Without the majorities demand they would be nothing. Ants naturally take care of their business its in their system they don't need coercive authority . There is no coercive authority because it will be unnatural to be one . The whole biological infrastructure of the race will fail if there is coercive authority . If there is coercive authority then working ants won't work anymore because their biological infrastructure changed so they don't know to handle their own business naturally as they did . Quote (J-Breakz) Ok, I understand that. If an agency guaranteed property rights than it would be a government, no? exactly Quote (J-Breakz) But i don't think the system is the best, obviously better than communism but I think they would be better off with a purer form of capitalism. Its pretty much what Karl Marx envisioned in his late career the Marxist fools are still waiting for the state to whiter away and all that crap . Bakunin warned Karl Marx that state monopoly leads to totalitarianism . And he has right instead of listening to Bakunin he kicked out Bakunin and most anarchists from the first international and this act lastly saw the final rupture between anarchists and Marxists because there are 2 strains of socialism here the Marxist one and the anarchist one these 2 date back to the first international .
|
|
|
|
| I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:37 PM | Message # 290 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) As much as the CEO seems to be a top dog they are still at the mercy of the majority. Without the majorities demand they would be nothing. That changes when the majority becomes completely dependent on the company. It isn't like the majority could just stop needing employment or services. However the CEO could just stop working and go live on an island like a happy fairy.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:37 PM | Message # 291 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) That changes when the majority becomes completely dependent on the company. It isn't like the majority could just stop needing employment or services. However the CEO could just stop working and go live on an island like a happy fairy. The only time the majority becomes completely dependent on the company is when there's an absolute monopoly, and in a true laissez faire capitalist system this is impossible. There needs to be a government that creates regulations to ensure there can't be any possible competition with them. In a specific market there will always be competition between the company and other entrepreneurs. I also find nothing wrong with a business owner that decides to stop working and live off the success he made because the success has met the peoples demands. If you are a person that wishes to do this then you must observe figure out what people are demanding, and create a business plan that will supply the peoples demands. There are allowed to be businesses with a worker co-op structure, and if it is as efficient as you guys say it is then it should be able to compete with any other business on the market.
livin life like some cheesy movie
Message edited by J-Breakz - Friday, 04/Dec/09, 8:47 PM
|
|
|
|
| I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:37 PM | Message # 292 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) In a specific market there will always be competition between the company and other entrepreneurs. I also find nothing wrong with a business owner that decides to stop working and live off the success he made because the success has met the peoples demands. That is all theoretical just like said Marx was theoretical. This kind of thing can not be known, only speculated. It seems like it makes sense, but we forget that the companies that started first have an upperhand and usually grow wealthy enough to always outdo the competitors that try to come up.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
| Menace |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:38 PM | Message # 293 |
Heads
Posts: 6764
|
Quote (I_Guy) but we forget that the companies that started first have an upperhand and usually grow wealthy enough to always outdo the competitors that try to come up. exactly even within a pure free market the excessive at all cost accumulation of capital will eventually lead to monopolies and many other types concentrations of wealth and power
|
|
|
|
| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:38 PM | Message # 294 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) That is all theoretical just like said Marx was theoretical. This kind of thing can not be known, only speculated. It seems like it makes sense, but we forget that the companies that started first have an upperhand and usually grow wealthy enough to always outdo the competitors that try to come up. There have been plenty of companies that have started out in an industry first and then have been wiped out by competition. Atari for example. If a business plan makes sense than it makes dollars. If an entrepreneur creates a business plan that makes sense then there will be an investor to support it.
livin life like some cheesy movie
Message edited by J-Breakz - Friday, 04/Dec/09, 8:51 PM
|
|
|
|
| I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:38 PM | Message # 295 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Right but the companies that invest in what we depend upon (oil, food, realestate, banking, etc) will almost always reign over other smaller competition, as long as they don't ruin themselves, eh hem eh hem *Enron*. You used the atari example. Sure, that company fell but that doesn't validate your reasoning. The fact is that people don't depend upon atari (or video games for that matter) like they depend upon food and shelter. Therefore companies that don't provide the essentials will become obsolete, but the companies that dictate the availability of the essentials that we do NEED have much more momentum and vitality to prevent themselves from going under. They can afford the force-field while others simply can't. Thus some kind of monopoly is imminent. And to have a monopoly on the things we dependently NEED is the worst thing that can happen.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:38 PM | Message # 296 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
The first part of the video explains enron and answers eboyds question. There can't be a monopoly in a free market system. We wouldn't have this problem.
livin life like some cheesy movie
Message edited by J-Breakz - Friday, 04/Dec/09, 9:36 PM
|
|
|
|
| I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:38 PM | Message # 297 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Yeah yeah the same old bullshit "it's not capitalism" fucking bullshit Sure, in the theory of capitalism, companies don't lobby the government to bend the rules to benefit themselves, but the fact is that capitalism breeds this kind of conduct. Some people might disagree and say,"No that's just those people's conduct, not capitalism's fault." Well even if this is the case, capitalism attracts people with this kind of conduct, so either way this type of conduct becomes a problem. So yes, capitalism either creates the behavior or it attracts people who already have the behavior. It all boils down to greed, that's it. How does this guy account for all the other companies that fucked up????? Seriously, have you not realized what capitalism does? They'll fucking lobby the government to make it illegal to collect rain water in a desert. No joke, they've done this. Marx saw this long ago. Now I know it isn't right to demonize something under generalizations, but there is a logical following from human nature to the rewards of capitalism that make it easy to predict (before its even proven itself to be true) that capitalism is fucked up.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:38 PM | Message # 298 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
http://www.heartland.org/policyb....ks.html Here's some more info about Enron Added (04/Dec/09, 9:48 Pm) --------------------------------------------- Quote (I_Guy) Sure, in the theory of capitalism, companies don't lobby the government to bend the rules to benefit themselves, but the fact is that capitalism breeds this kind of conduct. Some people might disagree and say,"No that's just those people's conduct, not capitalism's fault." Well even if this is the case, capitalism attracts people with this kind of conduct, so either way this type of conduct becomes a problem. So yes, capitalism either creates the behavior or it attracts people who already have the behavior. It all boils down to greed, that's it. That's why I either believe in no govn't at all or a much stricter constitution. Every argument made by a capitalist about it being the govn't's fault has been valid. You can't say it's bullshit just because there are companies that continue to exploit a mixed economy. That's giving more and more examples of why mixed economies don't work... that's it.
livin life like some cheesy movie
Message edited by J-Breakz - Friday, 04/Dec/09, 9:51 PM
|
|
|
|
| I_Guy |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:39 PM | Message # 299 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy fucking shit!!!!! In that video the dude mentions he was inspired by Ayn Rand's novel "The Fountainhead." Do you realize that Ayn Rand was the Russian chick who developed the philosophical concept of "objectivism." Do you realize what that entails? Objectivism is an ethical philosophy that says that all that matters is one's self and ultimate self interest. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Of course the dude would be reading that shit ahahahahah. Amazing how it all falls into place. Basically if you ask a capitalist "what's your justification for capitalism?" they'll respond "because I only care about myself." HAHAHAHA OH MY FUCKING GOD HA HA FUCKING HA. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
| J-Breakz |
Date: Wednesday, 20/Jan/10, 10:39 PM | Message # 300 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
I don't even remember what my point was now...
livin life like some cheesy movie
Message edited by J-Breakz - Saturday, 05/Dec/09, 0:47 AM
|
|
|
|