Is Bill Gates a Greedy Bastard?
|
|
I_Guy |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 8:01 PM | Message # 136 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) So what would be done to a person who is absolutely incapable of producing anything useful or someone who refuses to cooperate? are they still given what they're needed to live or are they left off to starve? For an incapable person (handicapped?), we would handle them just like we do today. For a resistor, we allow them the necessities. By doing so they would soon learn their resistance is pointless. Why would they resist what benefits them? They would refuse free education? Perhaps if they are apathetic, they may not care for education. Like I said, government would have to be big at first, there would have to be an organization that focuses on freeloaders or the apathetic. But keep in mind, in would be a generational paradigm shift. Just like we eliminated segregation. They couldn't educate people out of prejudice. It took educating their children out of it. If free education is persistent, we will finally have fresh generations who have been educated from the ground up about the new system. Eventually, older generations that are incapable of accepting the cultural shift will eventually die off, and therefore eliminating the majority of the resistance. The only problem with the new generations would be reaching everyone with education EARLY in their childhood to condition them to care and not be apathetic.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
J-Breakz |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 8:06 PM | Message # 137 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) We allow them the necessities. By doing so they would soon learn their resistance is pointless. Why would they resist what benefits them? You don't think that's unfair that other workers have to work to support such a parasite? Secondly, wouldn't it make sense for other workers to just stop working? Why would they care? They still get to make a living with no work, there are no consequences with not working.
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
I_Guy |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 8:19 PM | Message # 138 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) You don't think that's unfair that other workers have to work to support such a parasite? Check my post again, I elaborated a little more. Like I said, education will prepare the willing workers for sacrifice. It is a necessary evil to reach the greater good. Rational people will understand this. Quote (J-Breakz) Secondly, wouldn't it make sense for other workers to just stop working? Why would they care? They still get to make a living with no work, there are no consequences with not working. The uneducated will likely resist or not care. However, the educated will understand the necessity of working during the transition. Rational people will understand that if everyone stops working, then society will break down. BUT, don't get lost in the process here. Once, food production is automated (as it pretty much already is) by the government, then that necessity is covered. As we automate many other simple jobs less employment is needed. As people educate themselves (for free) to higher level jobs, less jobs will be needed to maintain society as the concentration of high level jobs encompasses all that is needed. The use of cyberautomation plus the concentration of higher level jobs will eliminate the need for lower level jobs. So essentially, it won't really matter that some people won't work and some people will. As long as production of goods is sustainable and education is available to everyone, after a few generations we will see an elevation of higher consciousness. From there we can move into literally rebuilding society. Meanwhile in the background, the governments of the world will HAVE to be cyberautomating production for the people. This will soon push big business out, because it would be impossible for corporations to produce goods for free. So they are left to either pack up and shut down, or assist with the transition via voluntary contributive donation. Eventually the governments will be able to turn the production over to the people and the nations of the world would join, as the reconstruction of cities begin. Understand that this is a systems approach under the careful eye of the scientific method. Society itself would eventually essentially be ran by the scientific method.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
J-Breakz |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 8:23 PM | Message # 139 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) For an incapable person (handicapped?), we would handle them just like we do today. I don't mean the mentally retarded, but the people who have learning disabilities that keep them from learning new things. Quote (I_Guy) For a resistor, we allow them the necessities. By doing so they would soon learn their resistance is pointless. Why would they resist what benefits them? They would refuse free education? Perhaps if they are apathetic, they may not care for education. Like I said, government would have to be big at first, there would have to be an organization that focuses on freeloaders or the apathetic. By resisting I mean refusing to do work.
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
J-Breakz |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 8:30 PM | Message # 140 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) The uneducated will likely resist or not care. However, the educated will understand the necessity of working during the transition. Rational people will understand that if everyone stops working, then society will break down. Who cares? If I can live on just doing nothing there's nothing stopping me. I will understand the necessity of working during the transition but what motivation do I have to work to make that transition? I am able to get just as much from not working now than I do from working (speaking as if I was living in the anarcho-communist society) Quote (I_Guy) As people educate themselves (for free) to higher level jobs, less jobs will be needed to maintain society as the concentration of high level jobs encompasses all that is needed. The use of cyberautomation plus the concentration of higher level jobs will eliminate the need for lower level jobs. So essentially, it won't really matter that some people won't work and some people will. As long as production of goods is sustainable and education is available to everyone, after a few generations we will see an elevation of higher consciousness. From there we can move into literally rebuilding society. Some one needs to build those machines first though. Your society works in theory but not in practice.
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
I_Guy |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 8:51 PM | Message # 141 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) Who cares? If I can live on just doing nothing there's nothing stopping me. I will understand the necessity of working during the transition but what motivation do I have to work to make that transition? I am able to get just as much from not working now than I do from working (speaking as if I was living in the anarcho-communist society) Well first of all in the beginning money will be converted to vouchers with unlimited value for allotted periods of time. Vouchers enable all people to gain access to necessities without the restriction of purchasing power like there is with money. If you go to work, you are assured to get all you need. That would be an early incentive to work and to go to school. If you work or go to school you get vouchers. Now sure a counterfeit underground could arise, but we can handle that just like we do today with money. People can't turn to drug dealing or other underground money makers because all things illegal would be decriminalized and perhaps legalized. So there would be no money in underground shit. So you think people would go through all kinds of trouble just to not work? It would be so much easier to just go to school or work. Quote (J-Breakz) Some one needs to build those machines first though. Your society works in theory but not in practice. Current government engineers and technicians can handle it in the beginning. Plus there's plenty of young college graduates anxious to get started working after they graduate. The key would be stealing them away from corporate business at first, which would end up being easy as corporations collapse. Keep in mind though that the whole system would be implemented after this current one fails or hits an extreme low. That would be the tipping point when people would be willing to search for an alternative. Luckily enough, a brilliant plan designed by a brilliant man will be awaiting them. They will simply need to be aware of it. Once they do, the government will take notice, as our government is "supposed to be the people." And that is what the Zeitgeist movement is all about, -getting people aware of the failures of this system, and the possibilities for a new one.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
J-Breakz |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 8:59 PM | Message # 142 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) Well first of all in the beginning money will be converted to vouchers with unlimited value for allotted periods of time. Vouchers enable all people to gain access to necessities without the restriction of purchasing power like there is with money. If you go to work, you are assured to get all you need. That would be an early incentive to eat and to go to school. If you work or go to school you get vouchers. Now sure a counterfeit underground could arise, but we can handle that just like we do today with money. So now your creating money and setting up a price system for it. Hasn't history shown this doesn't work? Quote (I_Guy) Current government engineers and technicians can handle it in the beginning. I thought this was an anarchist society? Didn't you say one of the problems with modern society is a form of government? Quote (I_Guy) The government will take notice, as our government is "supposed to be the people." So I was right, you are a complete communist, lol. People have tried this before and it didn't work out so much the way they planned it.
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
I_Guy |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 9:04 PM | Message # 143 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) I thought this was an anarchist society? Didn't you say one of the problems with modern society is a form of government? Some form of government will be needed to defeat big business. Like I said, government will have to be big at first and then shrink as we move further through the transition. Eventually it would be liquidated. Quote (J-Breakz) So I was right, you are a complete communist, lol. People have tried this before and it didn't work out so much the way they planned it. That's why I put "supposed to be the people" in quotes. I'm simply saying that if enough people are aware of the better alternative, power holders in the government will have to consider the direction of the people.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
J-Breakz |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 9:07 PM | Message # 144 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) Some form of government will be needed to defeat big business. Like I said, government will have to be big at first and then shrink as we move further through the transition. Eventually it would be liquidated. Didn't cuba try that and it didn't work out how it was originally intended?
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
I_Guy |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 9:11 PM | Message # 145 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) Didn't cuba try that and it didn't work out how it was originally intended? Cuba is a tiny island surrounded by a capitalist world, and back then one of the most powerful capitalists nations directly to its north. Of course Cuba had troubles. It has to be a global effort.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
J-Breakz |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 9:16 PM | Message # 146 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) Cuba is a tiny island surrounded by a capitalist world, and back then one of the most powerful capitalists nations directly to its north. Of course Cuba had troubles. It has to be a global effort. and the soviet union?
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
I_Guy |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 9:26 PM | Message # 147 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) and the soviet union? What about them? They were head on against capitalism. Communism can't defeat a corrupt system such as capitalism which can generate the money to grease the wheels and pull the levers. As long as capitalism exists somewhere in the world, all other systems are put in danger because capitalism appeals to the "evil" in people and it will always undermine all other ideal systems. It appeal to the "evil" in people because it is an extension of the selfish mehanisms in nature. Any sophisticated planned ideal system will be undermined by capitalism because it is easy for people to fall back into the carnal manifestations in capitalism. It's hard to be a sophisticated intelligent humanitarian, it's easy to be an uneducated simple selfish egoist. That's why capitalism has triumphed over other systems. Not because it is better, it's because it is easier. But technology can change that now, and make other more ideal systems easier.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|
J-Breakz |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 9:34 PM | Message # 148 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (eboyd) And I'll be nice and forget to mention 100+ years of Greek democracy :D What about it? It had it's share of corruption. Also participation wasn't open so there was obviously the whole tyranny of the majority.
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
J-Breakz |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 9:36 PM | Message # 149 |
Heads
Posts: 2162
|
Quote (I_Guy) What about them? They were head on against capitalism. Communism can't defeat a corrupt system such as capitalism which can generate the money to grease the wheels and pull the levers. As long as capitalism exists somewhere in the world, all other systems are put in danger because capitalism appeals to the "evil" in people and it will always undermine all other ideal systems. It appeal to the "evil" in people because it is an extension of the selfish mehanisms in nature. Any sophisticated planned ideal system will be undermined by capitalism because it is easy for people to fall back into the carnal manifestations in capitalism. It's hard to be a sophisticated intelligent humanitarian, it's easy to be an uneducated simple selfish egoist. That's why capitalism has triumphed over other systems. Not because it is better, it's because it is easier. But technology can change that now, and make other more ideal systems easier. It doesn't matter if there is capitalism in the real world, FIXED PRICE SYSTEMS DO NOT WORK. The fact that there are capitalist nations outside of the society is irrelevant.
livin life like some cheesy movie
|
|
|
|
I_Guy |
Date: Monday, 11/Jan/10, 9:56 PM | Message # 150 |
Heads
Posts: 1792
|
Quote (J-Breakz) It doesn't matter if there is capitalism in the real world, FIXED PRICE SYSTEMS DO NOT WORK. They don't work because resources are scarce in some countries. However, resources are not scarce in the WORLD. Regardless of whether the Venus Project has flaws or not (which can easily be worked out given the needed expertise), you can't sit there an act like capitalism is the cream of the crop. It's a terrible system, and we have to find an alternative. This system is not sustainable. It isn't sophisticated enough to work long term. It is too self oriented. It will ruin the world and deplete its resources. Capitalism is a spoiled child using it all up. Someday, a new system will have to pick up the pieces, if that's possible. The Venus Project (or something like it) will hopefully be that system.
We all know that each of our end is near; the question is do we accept the end of our living existence, or do we accept our existence as dead men...
|
|
|
|